Vern Tells It Like It Is: please vote, Americans

My fellow Americans. The ones who are eligible to vote, who are registered, who haven’t voted yet, who are open to my opinion on this. This is for you two.

This is the big one. This is the endorsement that’s gonna seal the deal, in my opinion. My friends, I believe Barack Obama deserves re-election, and not just ’cause I don’t want that creepy game show host looking guy in the White House. I believe Obama is a good person and a good president, and also has good taste because I read that he had some Gil Scott Heron on his iPod. And that blows my mind. Being friends with Jay-Z, that could be seen as a cynical ploy to attract youth, but Gil Scott Heron? That’s gotta be legit. That doesn’t appeal to any significant voting block.

There is no way Mitt Romney knows who the fuck Gil Scott Heron is. But we have a president who does. He appreciates the music and he knows about the revolution that won’t be televised and maybe he wasn’t gonna be able to be a part of that but he would do what he could in his own televised way, which was to become president. Wow.

Man, I wonder if he has any Last Poets on there? But anyway. I’m getting sidetracked here.

There’s this myth that we were supposed to get the world and didn’t get shit. That we were all convinced Obama was gonna turn our shit into rainbows, and that we should feel betrayed that he didn’t. Sure, we’re bummed that he said he was gonna close Gitmo and it still hasn’t happened. And while he did improve the economy and save the auto industry, the economy is still bad, and cars don’t talk like Knight Rider yet.

I don’t believe that somebody else in office would’ve done better, or as well, at fixing the economy. I sure as shit don’t believe that the policies Romney and Ryan are offering would improve things. And I also think people are forgetting some of the things Obama got done:

He got the troops out of Iraq. Set a time table to get them out of Afghanistan. Stayed out of the way and/or helped behind the scenes as oppressive regimes were overthrown by their own people – the spreading freedom and democracy that Bush made so many speeches about, but without having to invade anybody. And they found and killed bin Laden without blowing up the whole neighborhood. That was impressive.

The bank reforms. I don’t understand much of it, but I know one thing they did that they don’t know to brag about, because they don’t know people who live from paycheck to paycheck, is they actually changed the law so that banks can’t charge you an overdraft fee unless you opt into that program. That’s a big deal to alot of low wage people, and that got done. One less problem to worry about.

While writing this column I went back and read my ecstatic column about the election of Obama in ’08, and in that I also lamented all the setbacks for gay rights that happened in that same election. But then Obama came into office, he ended Don’t Ask Don’t Tell, a perfect success. He publicly changed his position on gay marriage, came out in favor of it, a huge deal that I believe will help it to happen. They even said it would hurt him politically. You could tell it came from his heart. I didn’t expect Obama to do any of this. A great and historic surprise.

He spoke to the American people like adults. That was cool.

And of course there’s the one that they named after him, Obamacare. They meant it was an insult but he said “fuck it” and took it as a compliment. He had to fight and he made us wince as he made compromises to get various assholes to let it through, but in the end he got The Affordable Care Act.

Now sick people can’t be dropped from their insurance, or denied for pre-existing conditions, women can’t be charged more than men, most middle class families save thousands due to tax cuts, young people can stay on their parents’ insurance until they’re 26… Next year there will be caps on how high insurance companies can raise premiums and many other protections. I know my day job finally kept the same insurance plan for a couple years in a row, and things are only getting better.

This is all good, and we can build on it in the future, but Romney, to please his crazy right wing base despite his past as a pro-health care governor, has vowed to “repeal Obamacare on day 1.”

I think this says a few things about Romney’s character: that he’s so lacking in principle that he’d disavow his own greatest accomplishment to to appeal to the current whims of extremists in his party, that he doesn’t expect voters to know anything about his history or the program he’s talking about, but most of all that he’s willing to threaten the lives and well being of 32 million Americans that will have insurance by 2019 under Obamacare but won’t under Republidontcare.

I don’t care if it’s a cheap political gimmick, I don’t take the threat lightly. No, I don’t believe he could do it in one day, but he could and would get it repealed with the help of the Republican shitbags in Congress who made it their job as public servants to try to impede and water down the legislation in hopes that it would be shitty and make the president look bad. Now Romney promised them he’d repeal it, and you can take that to the bank… to the blood bank, because you’re gonna need every dollar you get if you’re bankrupted by health problems.

Who are these people who genuinely believe that the problem is too many people having health insurance? Do they honestly not know anybody who has been fucked over by their insurance company, or who can’t go to a doctor because they don’t have insurance? It’s weird that they can’t relate to this. They see it as a hypothetical, an abstract problem. But it’s not. This is not a right wing/left wing, let’s debate on a talk radio show bullshit issue, this is human lives. This is people. Think about people in your own lives and how it has affected them.

I think about a couple of acquaintances from the past decade who could’ve used health insurance. There was a guy I knew through work, didn’t know him very well, but his name was Phil. Strange guy. Had done some time at some point, told me once he’d survived a horrific motorcycle in the ’70s, wasn’t crippled or anything though. He loved martial arts movies, so that’s what I would talk to him about. He was the guy who recommended HEROES OF THE EAST to me, that’s why I reviewed that. Great movie, glad he told me about it.

One day somebody mentions to me that Phil has these tumors on the back of his neck. I hadn’t noticed them before, but when I saw them I thought it was one of the most disgusting things I’d seen, they were about the size of golf balls. We were worried for the guy, but somebody talked to him about it. He said he didn’t believe in western medicine anyway. He was gonna put some salve on it if he could afford some special mushroom. I knew he was a house painter, so he must’ve been an independent contractor, didn’t have insurance. But he wasn’t the type of guy who would complain about it, or admit that was why he couldn’t get help. Somebody convinced him he should at least go to a free clinic, gave him some phone numbers and stuff.

The golf ball sized tumors were only the beginning. I tell you, this poor guy started to look like something out of BASKET CASE. The thing grew up around his neck, exploding out a whole side of his head. It got so big it started to droop. Sometimes it would crack. Sometimes stuff would come out, he’d have to ask for a paper towel. He couldn’t move his mouth very well, his voice got weak. He’d try not talk, you could tell it was painful because his eyes would well up with tears when he did. I’d look him in the eye when I talked to him but worry that he could see my pity. He was obviously living a daily torture, but he’d turn his collar up as if he could hide it, try to turn his head away so you wouldn’t see the sick side. Try to just go on with his life and act like everything was normal.

At some point he did go to a doctor, but it was way too late. They said they could remove part of it, but it had grown into his jaw, so that would probly shatter and fall apart, and it would only slow it down a little.

We were surprised he could walk around, let alone drive. Then one day he said goodbye. “This is it,” basically. And we never saw him again.

You can talk all you want about your Tough Shit philosophy, but if so I want you to look somebody like this in the eye and tell him why access to health insurance is not for him.
A guy like Phil, too proud to ask for help, too low on the class pyramid to get coverage from an employer, he pulls the wrong card and he’s fucked. We believe in America, is this really what we want to keep doing? Wouldn’t it be cooler if our house painters had insurance and when there was a bump on their neck they could go to the doctor and have it checked out, maybe catch it early? That’s the approach I would prefer.

Maybe Phil was too stubborn, you say. Maybe he doesn’t like doctors, even if he had the coverage he wouldn’t have gone. Another acquaintance I’ve had in recent years who died of cancer, he went to the doctor as soon as he could. A guy named Chris. I don’t think he ever recommended me any Shaw Brothers movies, but he was a cool guy I wish I could’ve known better, best friend of a friend. By all accounts a great and hilarious guy, beloved by the community. He worked at a bar, his employers one year finally added health coverage, and he’d had a persistent cough and sore throat, so he went to have it checked out. Turned out he had lukemia or something. Needed bone marrow transplants. He fought it for a couple years. People came together to help him out, had benefits in his honor, paid some of his bills. I think he did better than expected, but he couldn’t beat it.

I believe in America and I think America is too good for this bullshit. We don’t need to live with a class system where if your job isn’t good enough (or your employer isn’t progressive enough) then we say tough luck, nothing I can do, you gotta die. Or you gotta lose your life savings. People have been trying to improve our system for generations. Obama finally made progress on it, and these fucking scumbags, because they’re on the other team, they want to take a hammer to it. They want 32 million human beings to look down the barrel of the gun that killed Phil and Chris and so many others.

Don’t point that fucking gun at us, Romney.

Those are the stakes, people. It’s no joke. If you are registered to vote, you better get off your ass and do it. No excuses.

There’s a pretty common attitude that voting doesn’t make much of a difference, because the two party system is corrupt and both parties serve corporate interests and there’s not that much of a difference between them and blah blah blah. I accept my own guilt in this – I just re-read what my dumb ass was saying 12 years ago in item #2 here  and in this column.

But after what we’ve been through in the years since I reject this idea that it’s better to boycott a flawed system than to try to get the best we can out of it. If you lived through the Bush years and you really don’t think it would’ve been different under Gore then I don’t know what to tell you. I sure didn’t like Gore back then but oh man, do I know it would’ve been different.

And Romney would be different. 32 million less insured, at the very least.

You know what, I see “undecideds” on TV, and it terrifies me that our future depends on these nitwits who can’t look at these two and figure out which one most represents where they want the country to go. I mean jesus christ, I can only assume that undecideds are the same people who go onto the IMDb message boards and ask if so-and-so is the one in such-and-such, apparently not aware of the websight IMDb where you can look up stuff like that. These are not people who we should have to count on.

So maybe they shouldn’t vote. But you’re not one of those morons. If you’re someone who cares, who believes in stuff, who is gonna complain if shit goes bad, you better get around to filling out that ballot. And there’s more at stake than the presidency.

In Washington we got R-74, which would (will!) legalize same sex marriage. Actually the state government already legalized it, but bigots forced them to put it on the ballot before we can keep it. The very idea that the rights of a minority could be put to a vote is absurd. Of course that’s wrong. I mean, they never had white people voting to see if black people could be allowed to vote. But then again if they did, wouldn’t you have run out and voted? Or would you have been the asshole white person who doesn’t bother?

I got a buddy who told me he never votes, he’s too cynical for it or whatever. I think I successfully guilted him into doing it this time, but I want to get the word out there in case there are others like him. I trust most of you have gay friends or family, and you know that they fall in love and have relationships just like straight people do, and they should be able to visit their loved ones in the hospital and share property and inheritances and whatever else straight people do. If your religion is against gay marriage then you don’t have to take part, but your religion is not the rest of ours and it is separate from government, so it can please mind its own fuckin business when it comes to these matters.

This isn’t a right/left matter, it’s human rights and freedom and basic fairness and the government staying out of people’s lives and letting them do what they want. It’s one thing that my boys Clint and Invisible Obama can actually agree on.

So if you’re in one of the states where something like this is on the ballot, it is your duty to go out there and vote in favor of equality. I don’t want you some day to be talking to a friend about how her wife got hit by a car and the hospital wouldn’t let her in to see her because she wasn’t the legal spouse, and you gotta look your friend in the eye and say “Oh yeah, I was gonna vote for that.”

Nope. You ARE gonna vote for that. Let’s do this, people.

thanks for listening

This entry was posted on Monday, November 5th, 2012 at 3:57 am and is filed under Vern Tells It Like It Is. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. You can skip to the end and leave a response. Pinging is currently not allowed.

227 Responses to “Vern Tells It Like It Is: please vote, Americans”

  1. Over here it often seems like Obama would be the clear winner of this election, just because how the Republicans treated the “normal” people. And it’s no secret that every country has way more average Joe’s than rich assholes who can efford to not care, but then I see from time to time some news report that just scares me to death or I just remember how W. Bush cheated himself into a 2nd term.

    I gotta admit, I’m scared.

  2. Vern, I live in the state of Georgia, so you’ll forgive me if I’m less than enthused about my vote because I know it wont matter, there’s no way Obama will win Georgia (despite the fact that we have a huge black population) or any other southern state for that matter, he didn’t win Georgia last time, so why should I assume he’ll win this time? Georgia has probably not voted Democrat since the fucking 70’s

    but even so, there’s no real reason for me NOT to vote either, so I may as well go do it just to show support, after all I’ve only voted once in my lifetime (the last time) and I don’t really want to have only voted once in my life

    anyway, here’s fucking HOPING Obama wins, election day makes me really, really, really nervous, it’s such a serious thing, it seems like a joke for a while and then the day comes and you’re like “holy fucking shit, this is gonna decide the future of our country” and suddenly my palms are sweaty and my stomach is full of butterflies

    what I’m worried about is a war with Iran, Israel wants it (of course), but Obama seems hesitant, however I can guarantee you Romney would have no problem with it

    but no more middle east wars fucking PLEASE, why would we want to put ourselves through that again? I’m sorry to say this, but if Israel wants to go to war with Iran why the fuck is it America’s problem?

  3. Vern,

    I love your writing and musings on filmatism. And I am voting… For Romney. Hope we can still be friends.

    Lots of love,
    Chuck

  4. I’ve voted in Georgia as well, by absentee ballot. Beautiful piece, Vern. I’m with ya.

  5. Chuck, that was nice and all but if you’re intent on voting for Romney, why don’t you have anything to say about the content of Vern’s essay? I think he underlines some important reasons why voting for Romney might be a bad idea for our country and ourselves.

  6. My mother is a diabetic, breast cancer survivor who just had a hip replaced.

    I vote for the dickweed who wants to kill medicare, God will throw lighting bolts at my junk for three weeks straight.
    I like Obama. More importantly, I like my junk.

  7. No one is changing anyone’s mind. I agree with some of Vern’s thoughts (let’s gays get married already, jeez) and disagree with others. I think his points are passionately spelled out even if they are wrong. Not going to hate anybody for voting for Obama. I’ll be glad when this whole election is behind us and we can focus on more important things like GI Joe 2…

  8. I’ve got a question for you guys (Americans), and Republicans in particular; why are you OK with state funded education but not healthcare? I mean, healthcare would seem to be a more basic right since you can’t educate dead people. Over here in the UK no one would ever advocate dismantling the NHS, I don’t care how right-wing they are. It’d be political suicide, which I’m guessing would be true for any politician that advocated dismantling the public school system in the US. What’s the deal?

    And yeah I know, I could probably google this but fuck it I’d rather hear outlawvern.com’s thoughts on it.

  9. Well, I am not in favor of state funded education. The quality of our schools is terrible. So there’s that.

  10. So your solution is not to give more funding to schools but to what? Privatize them? I’m sure that’ll be fair. I mean, why wouldn’t for-profit institutions invest just as much in poor areas as they do rich ones? We’ll all have a level playing field then.

    Chuck, I don’t know what your reasoning is, but I can only assume it’s financial, since there’s no other reason on this earth to vote for Romney. So what you’re basically saying is, “I like civil rights, but I prefer tax breaks. Sorry, other people. Gotta get mines.”

  11. Healthcare leads direct to Communism.
    Just look at Switzerland.

  12. See, that sort of mean spirited oversimplifying is why I should know better than to engage in these things. I’m out.

  13. Or Communism leads directly to Healthcare.
    Just look at Cuba.

  14. This is the first election I’m eligible to vote as a shiny new US citizen. The problem is, it’s a weak field on both sides.

    Romney struggles with math, ethics and reality. Obama needs to grow some balls. Say what you will about GW – and I have PLENTY – that guy knew how to use his Presidential authority, and the Veto. Obama, not so much.

    I also really hate how *both* sides have gone very negative this time. Neither candidate looks presidential at this point.

    I’ve cast my vote, but I live in Texas, so it’s almost irrelevant. Nevertheless, it’s important.

  15. I’m sorry if I’m oversimplifying, but I don’t see any other way to look at it. I don’t see how anyone can vote for Romney and then look a gay person in the face afterward, especially if you claim to believe in equal rights for them. It would be different if you really did think they were the spawn of satan.

    I’m just saying, history will not look kindly on that decision.

  16. Mode7 – to put it bluntly it’s because the Republican party is the the party of big business and they don’t like the idea of healthcare for whatever reason so they brainwash people through the media outlets that they own to think it’s a bad thing

  17. BTW – I come from a country with socialized healthcare. It’s a safety net. If you want insurance, you can get it, and get serviced faster than public coverage would provide.

    Socialized healthcare and efficiency are not mutually exclusive.

    I don’t eat avocados. But when I go to the market, the fact that they have them doesn’t stop me buying bananas, which I do like*. See how that works?

    * Also monkeys but that’s a different story.

  18. on a lighter note, do you guys think the President gets a free membership to those secret society orgies featured in Eyes Wide Shut?

    I know if I was the President I’d need a little consequence free nookie to deal with all that stress

  19. Griff, these orgies were the only reason why Bill Clinton wanted this job!

    (Hey, a Bill Clinton joke in 2012! Give me the Tonight Show, dammit!)

  20. wabalicious monkeynuts

    November 5th, 2012 at 7:16 am

    I’m from the UK as well and it really saddens me to think of the US falling under the spell of Romney, who is obviously pure fucking evil. I mean, seriously, if this was a straight to dvd film and he was the mayor, you’d know straight away he was behind whatever nefarious plot the hero had to disrupt. This man wants to crush the poor and make sure he and his rich pals keep getting richer. He dismissed almost half the population with an “I don’t care about them, they don’t vote for me”. He is scum, just a greedy rich creep out for himself, and he has proven that time and again. Why do the US need “a businessman” at the helm, as i keep hearing Republicans saying on tv? Surely the country needs a compassionate and understanding president (something Obama has shown with some measure of success, although not as much as everyone would have liked), not some greedy corporate shill who wants to destroy everyone who isn’t rich?

    As i said, i’m from the UK so i know, having witnessed the Liberal Democrats sell themselves and their voters out by joining with the Conservatives, how shocking it is to see people throwing their futures away by voting for greedy elitists. This place is in a fucking mess and is still going downhill. Certain sections of the citizenry of the US needs to stop clinging to old ways and start caring about other people. We have a pretty successful public healthcare system here called the National Health Service, we pay for it out of our taxes as we earn, and it’s available to everyone. The Conservatives are trying to destroy it so that only rich fucks can get treatment and the poor will be trampled under the diamond-studded hooves of their horses. To me, this system is an amazing benefit, if you’re sick you get treated, no matter how much you have in the bank. You don’t get presented with a bill for tens of thousands when you leave hospital, because you and your felllow citizens taxes have already paid for your treatment. There is no limit to the amount of treatment you can have. You’re never forced to choose between getting treatment and losing your home. Wow, what an amazingly radical idea, showing some care for your fellow man.

    To sections of the people in America, i.e. Republicans, this is called Communism. Sharing and showing compassion is Communism. If that’s true then consider me a passionate Red. I would rather pay a small amount from every paycheque to fund the future of my healthcare than get sick in 40 years and find nobody cares and that i could die unless some rich benefactor steps in. At the moment i am unemployed, i was made redundant; having worked for the last 12 years straight, i have paid taxes to support the unemployed and now it’s my turn to take advantage of that pool of money i’ve paid into. I get enough to get by and my housing is paid for. Again, pure fucking dirty communism that the likes of Romney would probably disapprove heartily of, but it suits me nicely and means i have not been made homeless, with a few quid in my pocket.

    I’m not a religious man, but i’m going to say a prayer that the people see through this venomous bastard Romney and his greedy acolytes. Better the devil you know, especially a devil who has tried to make change but is repeatedly held back by greedy parasites who want to control all the wealth and start wars with anyone who looks at the US funny. Anyway, here’s my Facebook status for the election; “I’m really hoping that Mitt Romney follows bushido – the code of the samurai – because if he does, and loses the election, he’ll have to ritually disembowel himself while Paul Ryan stands behind him, ready to strike the finishing blow; a sword-stroke that causes his disgraced master’s head to fly off, wide-eyed, and bounce down the steps of the White House as his supporters watch, silently weeping.”

  21. I almost feel bad for Chuck. It must really suck to vote for someone as awful as Romney while still trying to look like an okay guy. The whole, “but I want sick people to get health care! and for gays to marry! and to legalize marijuana! and I’m against racial discrimination and for equal pay for women! I just want to be able to support those things while voting for someone who will do everything he can to fight against him, because reasons!” is just awful and sad.

    Oh well. Obama has this wrapped up.

  22. I’m not at all a fan of Obama but I still know the difference between getting kicked in the shins and being decapitated, so I’ll hold my nose and pull the D lever tomorrow. Cautiously optimistic.

  23. To be fair to Chuck (and Republicans in general), I think there is a legit argument to be made – the US having been founded on principles of small government, self-reliance, entrepreneurship and free-market thinking (a philosophy that’s served you guys well in my opinion), it just confuses me that this philosophy doesn’t also extend to the school system. Although I see from his reply that maybe is does which I suppose is at least consistent.

    If I was gonna not vote for Romney I think my primary reason would be that he’s a ranking member of a bizarre religious cult that was until the mid 70’s an officially racist, homophobic organization. Why he doesn’t get called out on this shit (even by Vern here) is beyond me. The US constitution explicitly forbids any church interfering with how the country is run and this guy is running for President? A guy that according to his own religion is directly answerable to Mormon leaders? Either he’s ineligible to be President or a bad Mormon – someone should ask him which of these two things is correct.

  24. That’s crap, Mode7. Yes, the US did have small government, self reliance, entrepreneurship, and a free market but this nation was also unlivable for the vast majority of its people before many of the progressive reforms of the early 20th century.

    That’s the problem, the right is so detached from history they fail to understand the implications of their social and economic policies. These people don’t think we need the Civil Rights Act or the Voting Rights Act, minimum wage laws, public education, laws for safe working conditions, and many other things that managed to transform a society that was awful for the vast majority of its people into one that is increasingly becoming a humane and just society.

  25. Hey, I’m not saying I necessarily agree with them (and since I’m not a US citizen no one should care what I think) – I’m just saying there is an argument to be made and that making such an argument doesn’t make you an automatic scumbag.

  26. That’s totally fair, Mode7, and I apologize for being too snip-snappy at you.

    I just bristle at what people, including Americans, think what America is, because many of those things lead to objectively bad things. Seriously, if you were not a wealthy person in 1880 or 1890 it was pretty crummy to live anywhere in the United States, and this was easily the period of most “liberty” according to Republicans and Libertarians. Only once these wrong ideas of what America meant were fought against in the early 20th century did we start to see a society that looked just.

  27. Seems to me the left made the US a progressive country and the right made the US a rich country – I think you need both of these things to be a great country. As much as Dems/Reps seem to bitch at each other over there, I think you’d all be fucked if either side quit or stayed in power too long.

    Long may the pendulum swing I say.

  28. Except that we don’t have a left in this country. It has not existed in a long, long time.

    We have an insane rightwing party, and a moderate party that gets labeled for being left wing no matter what it does.

    There is literally nothing left wing about a market based health insurance program (Obamacare), a stimulus that contains huge amounts of tax cuts (which the Republicans wanted to do as well, just didn’t want to sign onto Obama’s version), and tons of other things.

    If we had an actual left wing in this country you would have seen the big banks broken up or nationalized, tariffs put onto goods coming from China, actual legislation to address climate change, gun control, us getting out of Iraq and Afghanistan, and a ton of other issues.

    Instead we get the false premise that Republicans are to the right and Democrats are to the left, so we should be in the center of those, which just results in the Republicans cynically moving further and further to the right to pull every conversation to ever more extreme and insane places, while the Democrats just cower and hope that by being moderates that they can at least get that much.

    And, sure, the right has made the US a rich country, but they’ve also done everything they could to make sure that wealth stays at the very top.

  29. Feel free to criticize me all you want but please don’t put words in my mouth. I never said anything in support of free health care. I remain very much opposed to that.

    Is it possible to have a civilized discourse about politics without name calling? Probably not. I will just say this–I am a libertarian. I desire personal and economic freedom. So why I obviously disagree with Romney on many issues, on the ones where the President can actually do something, we are more in line. I’d rather we just elect Gary Johnson but, you know…

    I respect everyone’s views though I may disagree. All the best.

  30. Man, libertarians who vote for Romney are the worst.

    So you’re willing to sacrifice gay rights, legalizing drugs (or at least making crack sentencing more fair, that’s a start!), a (relatively) more peaceful foreign policy, and bunches of other things because you want the highest income tax rate to stay where it is and not go up by 3%?

    I also bristle at people who call themselves libertarians. You don’t care about liberty, you just care about making sure the wealthy and powerful keep as much of their wealth and power as possible.

  31. I dunno man, I think if I actually lived in the US I’d probably be further to the left than I am at present. As someone that lives in the UK where the Government does it’s best to make it’s presence felt in every goddamn facet of your life it’s hard not to romanticise some of what you would probably consider conservative (or maybe libertarian) philosophies. Try living over here for a while – I guarantee you’d start feeling the twinge of oppression pretty quickly.

  32. That was @Casey btw

  33. @ Jam
    I am afraid i dont get your Irony.My Point was that a good Healthcare System,dont have to go Hand in Hand with
    Communism, or Nazism,by the Way.
    The Nazis build the “Autobahn”too,and i guess no Tea Party Member want to wreck the Highways.
    I am a Diabetic,and Suffer from neurophatic Pain in both legs.In Germany,i getting all the Help and Medics i need.
    I saw a Documentary about poor People without Medical Care i the States.That was really tough.
    There are some Welfare Clinics,where some great Docs and Nurses giving all the Help and Medics they can.
    Then sending the Bills,which they know,wont be payed of course.
    But thats just a Drop on a hot Stone,of course.I guess as long you are young,rich and healthy ,you don´t have to
    care that much.

  34. Pike, I think Jam was just making a joke that, for all of Cuba’s problems, they still have better healthcare than the U.S., supposedly the most prosperous nation on earth. In other words he totally agrees with you.

    I’m sorry to hear about your health problems, but I’m glad you can put a personal spin on how decent healthcare can help an individual in need. I think people need to be reminded sometimes that it can happen to anyone and not all people who need help from the government or their fellow citizens are freeloaders.

  35. Ah,I get it now.
    Sometimes,when i write;I dont get it,i really dont get it.I don´t want to step on anybody´s Toes.
    But as you can see,i also suffer from my bad English.

  36. i really dont see the point of voting in a presidential election. either major party candidate will just create a different form of clusterfuck. there is no room for rational thought in the mainstream national political discourse, so i think the only valid choice is to vote for a third party. i do agree that people should get out and support ballot issues like gay rights etc. if that is on the table for them though.

  37. I think the most important reason to vote in a presidential election is that you get to vote for more than just the President. There are a lot of people that win based on the popular vote. If you sit this one out, you might be the deciding vote on who gets to go to Congress or the House of Representatives. More often than not, those are the most important people in government. As we have seen from guys like Mitch McConnell who actively talk about doing nothing in order to make sure the black President doesn’t get a second term. That comment alone should be enough to get you to vote for the Senate and House.

    Plus, Romney has consistently lied. Even more that politicians usually get called out on. He then tells you that he has this awesome plan to get the economy going but won’t tell you until after you elect him. That’s like saying the devil comes to you and says “I can make you richest beyond your wildest dreams” and then doesn’t tell you that you’ll have your balls constantly eaten by a pack of wild boars for eternity.

  38. Anybody here in an area that can vote in the Jim Graves vs Michelle Bachman race? Make sure that crazy person doesn’t get re-elected please. Thank you.

  39. Ron – I guess my column was a bust then. So you really think 8 years of Gore would’ve been as bad as 8 years of Bush? I can’t imagine it would – I don’t think he would’ve gone into Iraq, I think he would’ve handled Katrina competently, I don’t think he would’ve put the country into debt, he wouldn’t have divided the country so badly, he would have kept us in good favor with other countries and he would’ve worked on improving environmental and energy policies so at least we might be moving in the right direction instead of still arguing if climate change is real or not while New York is underwater. For starters, off the top of my head.

  40. Even the most jaded Obama supporter back in the 08 elections can’t deny there are two concerns. It really doesn’t matter how much he got done or didn’t in the past 4 years or what he would be doing (or not doing) in the next 4.

    One, Romney is bad fucking news. It’s one thing to be a Republican who believes in something. It’s another to be one who will listen to the most crazy right wing nonsense from that part of the party and cater to them rather than tell them they are fucking nuts. It’s always the moderates who decide the election so I don’t understand this at all. It’s a weird when Democrats try to lean right to get the moderate vote while the Republicans go all the way to the right to jerk off the craziest of the party. I don’t pretend to understand this.

    Two, even if you are so jaded and feel that there’s no real difference between the two candidates and believe both are just going to fuck everything up, here are three words: Supreme Court Justice. That’s all that needs to be said to anyone who thinks they just sit this one out after what happened the last time.

    It’s okay to be disappointed. It’s not okay to be so disappointed you passively allow shit to get even worse.

  41. Christ guys, how about you respect the people voting for the other candidate instead of trying to attack them or instantly jumping on them. This kind of attitude that the people voting for other guy must be stupid or insane is exactly the kind of divisiveness that’s tearing this country apart. Believe it or not, not everyone feels the way you do on every issue, in fact, probably close to half the country is going to vote the other way. I’m not happy about it either, but I’ve talked with people on both ends of the political spectrum enough to know there are legitimate reasons people vote for one or the other.

    I happen to agree with Vern, but I completely respect someone who chooses to vote a different way, that’s why we have elections in the first place.

    Chuck, I hope you don’t let these guys get you down.

  42. I live in a Scandinavian socialist hellhole, and it’s always bizarre to me look at the US health care system from the outside. Here, everyone gets healthcare ranging from free to very affordable (my dad got a triple bypass surgery, and it cost him a few hundred dollars – and that included after care like physical rehabilitation) and no one is forced without care. Everyone gets treated.

    And we accept that as part of our taxes. And yet, we don’t feel evil government is holding a jackboot down on our throats taking away our freedom.

  43. I can’t find a singular legitimate reason to vote for Romney other than to not vote for Obama which is a really stupid way to vote. I think another reason to not vote for Romney is that Paul Ryan is one step away from being President. That dude is the scariest of all. He would be the closest to an evangelical to the White House as I’m comfortable there being.

  44. Here in Sweden, we take the health care for granted.But with the current government in charge we probably end up like America before Obamacare,I fear. When everything get privitized and taken overyou sell out the safety of your citizens. There are some things that should not be profit-driven. Healthcare and infrastructure are two.

  45. RE: PIKE BISHOP
    Yeah, I was just yanking your chain. In Ireland, we seem to have the worst of both worlds in that our health system is neither fish nor fowl; it’s neither an effective universal health system nor a competitive insurance market. The HSE (Health Service Executive) has been paralysed by mis-management and a succession of government who keep on letting the problem slide (although our maternity service is second to none!)

    I may not be rich or young, but I’m pretty grateful to have my health.

  46. bullet3, I never said Chuck was stupid or insane. I assume he has his reasons and they make sense for where he’s coming from. I was just wondering if those reasons justify throwing a good chunk of the population under the bus.

  47. Yeah Paul Ryan is creepy, the guy looks like a sociopathic sex offender. Then again there’s some pretty strong evidence that Bill Clinton actually is a sociopathic sex offender so you never know I suppose.

  48. Great so all the Jews will die and he has the backing of a lot of Jews?

  49. @Mode7 – we obviously live in different UKs. The Tories are dismantling the NHS,and the education system, and the welfare state, they’re engaged in a smash and grab. The tea party mentality isn’t just in the states.

    Anyway from this side of the pond whether Obama or Romney gets elected makes no difference, Obama’s not a Dove and Romney’s not a falcon, I assume the kill list will remain the same length no matter who is in the Whitehouse.

  50. bullet3, I totally get where you’re coming from. But, and I don’t mean to just say this to be overly partisan or mean, what legitimate case is there to vote for Romney? I’m seriously asking, because it isn’t like the Republicans and right wing would be much different and where they are different they are clearly worse.

    Mode7, I get where you’re coming from about being living in a nation with a more obtrusive government, but I hope you understand that we get hassled here in the states as well. We get hassled by the federal and local governments, but also by private enterprise that runs so much of our daily lives. Try being on the phone with a health insurance provider trying to get an emergency paid for, or get wrongfully towed by a tow truck and try to get that resolved without paying a few hundred dollars for it, or tons of other things.

    Sadly, having smaller government doesn’t mean there is less hassle, it just means the people who hassle you are doing it for profit (so they do it much more aggressively) and that you have no way to actually change the situation.

  51. I vote for more Vern Tells it like it Is’

    I also vote that the vast majority of both Israeli and American Jews I know don’t see Iran as a credible threat and understand that our current sanctions have worked like gangbusters in shutting down their nuclear program. Also, I vote for more shit like Stuxnet, because that shit’s cool.

    In California we can REPEAL THE DEATH PENALTY! and REFORM THE THREE STRIKES LAW! Those are some worthwhile as fuck causes, if you ask me. And as an added bonus, not putting innocent men to death would save the state lots of money.

  52. I just want to say Amen Vern. Amen.

    “Who are these people who genuinely believe that the problem is too many people having health insurance? Do they honestly not know anybody who has been fucked over by their insurance company, or who can’t go to a doctor because they don’t have insurance? It’s weird that they can’t relate to this. They see it as a hypothetical, an abstract problem. But it’s not. This is not a right wing/left wing, let’s debate on a talk radio show bullshit issue, this is human lives. This is people. Think about people in your own lives and how it has affected them.”

  53. I’m the wrong person to ask cause I’d never vote for Romney in a million years, I’m not one to really play devil’s advocate, though I could try.

    I think a lot of people would argue that Obama had the wrong priorities, that the health-care bill he spent his political capitol on is half-assed and won’t work as a result,
    that he’s been creating a real divisive “us vs them” mentally between the rich and the poor, and that his proposed tax increases will hurt the economy.

    I don’t really agree with those, except for the “dividing the country” part. I do think a lot of his “main st vs wall st” rhetoric has been excessive,
    and is just cheap political pandering that doesn’t help anybody but himself.

    On stuff I’d personally say he could be criticized on, I’d say that he failed to find a way to get legislation past the stone-walled congress.
    Not really his fault, but a better president might’ve found a way to rally the people to force congress to stop blocking everything, or
    found creative ways to force some of these politician’s hands.

    Guantanamo was also a missed promise, as well as him mostly ignoring environmental issues (certainly not playing it up in his speeches), allowing the idiot skeptics to gain credibility.
    There’s also the question of the vastly ramped up drone strikes, civilian casualties, and kill-lists. America has been much more in the assassination game than it was even during Bush’s time in office.
    I’d also say he’s dead wrong to under-estimate Russia and pretend they’re an ally. This is the one thing Romney has definitely gotten right, anyone following what’s been going on the last 10 years
    would see that Russia has been actively working to destabilize the middle east in an effort to boost fuel prices. They’re the ones arming Iran and helping build their reactors.
    Pretending like the Cold War is over and joking about it is very naive on Obama’s part.

    That’s about all I can come up with though, I definitely think he’s a waaaaay better candidate than Romney, I’m just saying pretending like he’s a saint would also be misguided.
    Also, he watches The Wire, so that already gets him my vote

  54. All politicians should be forced to watch The Wire, and then given a written exam to make sure they understood it.

  55. Verntastic Verngasmic:

    Stallone confirms Nic Cage in Expendables 3

    Plus awesome fan art

    http://crazymoviepeople.com/blog2/2012/11/05/stallone-confirms-nicolas-cage-is-on-board-for-the-expendables-3/

    found on reddit

    oh yeah and vote. my view is: if you don’t vote, you forfeit the right to complain about politics

    if someone starts whining about politics around me, i go “did you vote?”

    and if they say no, i walk away/ tune them out and hold them in serious contempt

  56. There’s lot of good and bad to be said for living in the UK and from things I’ve read, the citizens of the USA often consider us communists for having our socialised healthcare system (the National Health Service as previously stated) despite our really quite despicable imperial history.

    The NHS is flawed, there are many controversies and screwups, inefficiencies and inconsistencies. It can even be difficult for a consistent prescription strategy across our tiny country.

    Well, I don’t want to tell the folks of the USA what’s what, because you have so much going for you that we don’t, but please understand this one thing: the NHS is not a communist plot, it is a FUCKING GODSEND.

  57. Well said The Limey. I live in the UK and don’t have a pot to piss in, but the NHS took care of my son when he got very ill. Fucking Godsend, well said mate.

  58. I does not matter, but I would have voted for Obama. No question about it.

  59. that $10,000 emergency room bill (that is passed to you in your taxes and the person is financially ruined because they can’t afford it) would have cost $100 if the person caught the condition early at their doctor, if they had one they could go to before their was an emergency, because they had insurance

    but they can’t afford insurance because only the sick get insurance (that’s why premiums are high: they have to cover expenses… but as premiums go up, less can afford it, a vicious cycle of higher costs for insurance and so only the very sick have insurance). the healthy don’t get insurance (and when they break their arm, they can’t pay the bill and are financially ruined and our taxes covers that)

    crisis care and preventative care: the usa excels in turning every $100 preventative care issue into a $10,000 crisis care issue, because as a nation, we’re idiots on this issue

    why do americans want more expensive insurance? because that’s what “choice” means in the real world

    fact: every other single peer of the usa in terms of industrial nations: japan, canada, great britain, france, etc.

    they have universal healthcare, single payer/ mandatory

    and they live LONGER

    and the spend LESS

    look at the usa here:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_total_health_expenditure_(PPP)_per_capita

    look at the usa here:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_life_expectancy

    completely ridiculous

  60. Obama has disappointed me in some serious ways (Guantanamo is high on the list, assassinating US citizens without trial is simply appalling, and his escalation of drone strikes has got to be the single worst thing he could possibly do to destroy any goodwill and trust that he might ask of the rest of the world).

    But the simple fact is, he’s about as good a candidate for a reasonable, thoughtful, and humane candidate as this system seems capable of producing. Jill Stein ain’t fucking becoming president. But Obama can be. And as much as I have disagreed with him and been frustrated with him from time to time, I think he’s shown himself to be, above all, a reasonable man in an increasingly unreasonable and insane political climate. When he’s made bad calls, I think he did it with good reasons, taking a calculated risk which didn’t end up working out. But mostly, he just makes sensible, reasonable policies as much as possible in a time when congressional debate is dominated by outrageous inflammatory rhetoric, baseless accusations, and dogmatic stubbornness.

    And I think he will be president again. But Jesus Fucking Christ America, how do you let a guy like Mitt Romney come this close? Romney’s campaign may not have been the nastiest in American history, but it has to be among the most shamelessly, openly cynical. Ever. I know of no other national campaign for president in American history which was so entirely, transparently devoted to straight-up lies. His campaign has virtually no substance of any kind other than the obsessive need to tell people whatever it takes to get them to vote for him, in utter disregard to the truth and even to being called out on the truth (which consistently seems to have not hurt him in the slightest).

    America, I don’t know Mitt Romney. He has a wife and kids, I’m sure he’s a good guy, a loving father. But we simply cannot let this kind of campaign come this close to success. It’s a horrifying and dangerous road to go down if you care even an iota about democracy. If Romney, among the least appealing candidates ever put forward in a generation, can simply coast to 50% on baldfaced lies and vague rhetorical gestures… I don’t understand you at all, America. You have to know in your heart of hearts that voting for his man is a vote for the most contemptible pandering the political process is capable of creating. And it makes me fucking terrified at what the next guy is gonna try and pull on us. Especially if the next guy is even a little tiny bit more palatable than Mittens. Can you imagine someone with actual charisma lying as dilligently as Romney has? If that’s really all it seems to take, how easy it would be for such a person to sweep to victory. And jesus, what fucking use would democracy even be after that?

    America, you’re better than this. Obama isn’t perfect, but he’s at least a candidate we deserve. Romney simply can’t claim that. That the choice wasn’t immediately obvious is deeply scary.

  61. @bullet3: See, that’s the thing–I don’t think Obama’s creating a divisive us-vs.-them thing between the rich and the poor. I think he’s just asking for the wealthier off to do some civic duty and pay an additional amount in taxes in the same way we ask people to do their civic duty and sign up in the military. Except all the rich would be doing is paying a little more money to save the economy they supposedly care about. Obama is not asking the wealthy to go overseas to fight complete strangers, risk getting shot, or to be separated from their families for months. they’d end up getting credited with helping to put the economy back on track. It’s patriotism at its finest.

    I think if anybody is creating an us-vs.-them mentality related to class, it’s the Republicans. It was bad during the Reagan era when he classified welfare mothers as horrible leeching parasites. Without any evidence whatsoever, Reagan told an entire nation of people several times over that being poor and needing help because you are poor = you are a complete monster. When the amount of homeless people increased in the U.S. as a direct result of his economic policies, he responded that poor people are poor by choice.

    Things worsened during the Bush Jr. era when the not-at-all greedy banks and lenders targeted low-income populations for subprime mortgages with ridiculous interest rates. The free market that Republicans don’t believe needs heavy monitoring allowed for greedy people to be greedy. Those greedy people targeted poor and vulnerable populations by offering them money they could not afford to pay back and houses they could not afford to live in. And that’s a big part of why the country was in a mudhole in in 2008 before Obama took office. I’m not saying a democratic president would have been more assertive in regulating the market so that these kinds of horrible things wouldn’t happen again–but I will point out that when Republicans rejected Obama’s job act in 2011, they instead passed a bill that eliminated a lot of the checks and balances we put in place after the housing crisis. Why in hell would they do this?

    Did you guys hear about this? You know the whole GOP tentpole about how keeping the tax rate low for the richest people helps create jobs? (Because, I guess, being rich + being taxed less makes you feel more charitable and so jobs for everybody)

    Yeah–that’s all bullshit.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/02/business/questions-raised-on-withdrawal-of-congressional-research-services-report-on-tax-rates.html?ref=business&_r=0

    ^ This link here talks about how the Library of Congress just released a report debunking this nonsense. A bunch of librarians, scientists, and economists looked at like 65 years of data and found no relationship between low tax rates for the wealthy and job creation. Republicans naturally responded by asking for the report to be removed from the records. LOL.

    Two points here. Obama’s just asking for everyone to help out in getting the nation back on track. I don’t think he’s dividing the country–I think he’s asking for people like, say, Donald Trump to be a little less greedy and a little more patriotic. Second point: Republican economic policies have historically created big problems for our country. I don’t wanna call anyone out that wants to vote for Romney–just know that he’s probably gonna help to put us in the same place that we were in 2008.

  62. anyone thinking about healthcare in the usa has to read this:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/14/opinion/sunday/kristof-a-possibly-fatal-mistake.html

    (relevant here: “Vertigo” art homage)

    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/18/opinion/kristof-scotts-story-and-the-election.html

    do you weep? do you get depressed?

    for me, these two columns infuriate me

  63. I don’t disagree with the tax policy, as you’ve said, history has shown that lowering taxes does not boost the economy, and they’re at a historic low right now.
    He’s doing the right thing by raising them, but I do object to some of the specific language he has used in his speeches, which gets applause lines with big crowds but is unnecessarily drawing class lines and painting rich people as the bad guys. Obviously we’re in a recession, so a lot of that kind of sentiment has come from external forces (the 99% movement), but he hasn’t helped matters and has been playing into those sentiments. I think we have to be real careful about the distinction between greedy people who exploited the system to get rich, and hard working people who built and earned their success. Blanketly villifying those who are well off is very dangerous and unhealthy in a society.

  64. I’m in California and here we have a chance to vote out the death penalty this year. So even if you don’t care about the presidential race, you can still do some good.

  65. This is an amazing article, thanks. I’d vote, but I’m still registered in Connecticut and there’s no way Obama’s not getting in.

  66. Yeah, I tend to think the motherfuckers who are shipping jobs overseas, using fraud to swindle pension funds of their cash, and who are doing everything they can to fuck us over so they can make money are the ones to blame for the divisive nature of things. I won’t blame Obammy Bam for pointing out that these sons of bitches are fucking us over.

    Not for nothing, but if Obama was as divisive and as much of a class warrior as I want he’d be talking about the blood of the bourgeois class flowing in the streets.

  67. Oh man, an impassioned story of friends in need and man’s inhumanity to man that got me all choked up…

    followed up by a brutal (and completely gratuitous) take down of those IMDB assholes (your mortal enemies) that had me cracking up!

    How do you do it Vern? I know you’re shy of the spotlight but you should be in politics or something. This was one of your best and it worked. I sat out the last the last few elections, mostly due to cynicism and heartbreak, and when I did vote it was usually for some third party types.

    Well this year I’ve made sure that I’m registered at my current address and tomorrow I’ll be casting a vote for sanity, progress and ethical health policy.

    One more thing, It’s great to have you writing about politics again Vern. “RepubliDontCare”, “Don’t point that fucking gun at us, Romney”, great stuff.

  68. Hey, wait a minute…did Vern just let slip that he works in construction? ANOTHER PIECE OF THE PUZZLE FALLS INTO PLACE.

    So it is now confirmed; Vern is Rowdy Roddy Piper, as I think we all somehow suspected.

  69. Vern is a fish monger at Pike Place.

    I don’t want to hear anything different.

    I have to preserve the integrity of my internal narrative.

  70. that would make a lot of sense actually (if Vern was a construction worker)

  71. Actually I hope he fits carpets, Just because I used to fit carpets. It’s a pretty good job, I recommend it.

  72. Nope. He’s a “cleaner.” He outsources for jobs requiring heavy subterfuge.

  73. I hear he can shoot lightning bolts out of his arse

  74. Eight words I haven’t heard on TV as Election Day draws near, but would surely welcome amidst all the Rob McKenna/Jay Inslee slugfest bullshit:

    “I’m Outlaw Vern, and I approve this message”.

  75. bullet3: “I think we have to be real careful about the distinction between greedy people who exploited the system to get rich, and hard working people who built and earned their success.”

    this is not a useful distinction. there are many diligent, law abiding rich people who nevertheless view any taxation as some kind of unnatural punishment inflicted on them by a vicious government. these people have been fighting very hard for 30 years to make sure they can avoid paying as little back into the system as possible, so its hard to see how there is anything unhealthy about calling them out on their crappy behavior. i would say the opposite is more likely true.

  76. John Donovan, the sad thing is it matters a lot to the whole globe who gets elected in the USA. We’re all affected by the actions of the American President, whether we like it or not. I’m from Norway, a small social democratic country that’s famous for going our own way politically, and still we have troops in Afghanistan!!! For no other reason than to please the American government and their war mongering friends at the NATO headquarters.

    And this from the country that has a health care system that’s so good Michael Moore couldn’t use it as an example i SICKO because he feared people would think he’d made it up. And a tax system that would probably send rich people around the world into a coma if they read it. Obama might be a bastard with his drones and secret assassinations, but he’s a smart man (something we’re not too used to from an American President) and I believe he’s the right man for the job this time.

    Mind you, the United States of America is the only country in the world where the rich started a revolution just to avoid taxes, so the job of bringing it up to our standards will probably take more than 4 years. Let’s hope for a long row of Democratic Presidents!

  77. nabroleon dynamite

    November 6th, 2012 at 2:23 am

    Romney is this close to winning for two reasons…

    1. He’s Black.

    2. He CLEARLY lost the 1st debate.

    These are all the fuel needed for an America founded on white privileges to boost a snake like Mitt Romney to the level of the man who saved the economy and killed Osama Bin Laden.

    Win or lose, America needs some serious introspection.

  78. nabroleon dynamite

    November 6th, 2012 at 2:27 am

    Should read 1. Obama is black. & 2. He CLEARLY lost the 1st debate.

    Attention: Romney isn’t black.

  79. Not too long ago, George Will said what a lot of intelligent conservatives believe: “If the GOP can’t win now [with this economy], they should get out of politics.”

    Confirming that message — along with the rebuke of terrorist-level obstructionist tactics from house GOPs — is the most important reason to vote for Obama.

  80. What really galls me about libertarians and conservatives is that we just saw the largest financial disaster in nearly a century. This should have proven once and for all that the private sector is not nearly as efficient as they claim, and that those captains of industry need a little babysitting or they will wreck the entire economy. And yet they double down on their laissez faire philosophy. It seems to me that these individuals are just incapable of taking in new information and changing their minds as facts change.

  81. Derivatives trading should be fucking banned (or at least heavily regulated). I mean, what value does this shit actually bring to the world? The free market only works when people actually know what they’re buying and have an idea of what it’s worth.

  82. Absolutely, Mode. It’s also shocking that no high ranking member of Wall Street has gone to jail for the massive amounts of fraud that had been going on for at least a decade. From the quid pro quo relationship between the rating agencies and Wall Street banks to the robo-signing incident in the home mortgage market, you can’t tell me that some CEO wasn’t aware of these practices. What further upsets me is that when banks are caught committing crimes, most of them can toss some money at the federal government and then call it a day. Even after the largest economic collapse of my lifetime (and my parent’s lifetime), the people responsible have largely gotten away unscathed. Sorry for the rant. But, four years later, this still angers me.

  83. There is just no excuse to not vote today. Even Donald Duck knows that!
    http://youtu.be/IvYO45VaOys

  84. I just voted.

    Did you?*

    (*offer only valid in USA)

  85. The Original... Paul

    November 6th, 2012 at 1:37 pm

    I can’t vote in the American elections, so I did the next best thing. I put my hands to my face, screwed up my eyes, faced towards in the general direction of Florida, and concentrated as hard as I could on the words “Vote Obama! Vote Obama!”

    …There ends my contribution towards the cause.

  86. Did my duty as a citizen today sir. Even though I’ve had mixed feelings on the quality of Obammer’s performance the THC content in Romney wasn’t strong enough to get me to vote differently.

  87. I have the TV set on Palladia right now, with Simon & Garfunkel singing “The Fighter”. Can’t think of a more appropriate song for tonight, for so many reasons.

  88. Ugh, I mean “The Boxer”.

  89. holy fucking shit is this election gonna be close

  90. They’re calling Ohio, and therefore the Presidency, for Obama.

    They being the tv stations.

    Don’t celebrate yet kids…

  91. OBAMA WON! OBAMA WON! OBAMA WON!

  92. I bet he doesn’t just win, but gets Ohio, Florida, AND Virginia. What an embarrassment, Mr. Romney. Guess you should have written another speech http://www.thedailybeast.com/cheats/2012/11/06/romney-i-only-wrote-victory-speech1.html

  93. this is every Republican in America right now http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lT49R7Ffxzg&feature=g-all-u

    we got our revenge for Bush getting reelected guys, feels good doesn’t it?

  94. caruso_stalker217

    November 6th, 2012 at 10:07 pm

    Thank you for that link, Griff. I’m gonna use that shit for everything.

  95. Mode7: Derivatives trading keeps the farming industry afloat. You sell you grain futures to pay to…make the grain.

  96. here’s another way to describe Republicans right now

  97. Two terms mothafuckas. TWOOOOOO TERRRRRRMMMMMSSSSS!!!

    I’m pretty goddamn excited about this right now. I’m bisexual, I don’t make very much money, and I have back problems from a skiing injury ten years ago that requires physical therapy and medication. Obamacare has helped me out immensely over the last few years, and I look forward to enjoying it’s benefits for a few more at least. I absolutely believe that the man has done a decent job in a shitty situation over the last four years, and most importantly, I believe Mitt Romney would have been a step backward for this country. Thanks to everybody who voted, regardless of which direction you went.

    And a big extra same sex loving healthcare enjoying middle class THANKS to everybody who voted for Obama.

  98. Thanks should go especially to the women and minorities who went more for Obama. It doesn’t help that many Republicans are so ass backwards when it comes to rights of those particular groups.

  99. Awesome, but I just read that the Rapeublicans keep their majority in the house of representatives. And to be honest, I got no fucking idea what that means. Does that mean they are still able to block without trouble whatever Obama wants to do?

  100. It really bummed me out that this close race really seemed to be about “this president didn’t give me everything I wanted so I’m going to vote for this other guy and see if he gives me everything I wanted.” I’m very relieved Obama can continue his work. It’s what I wanted, but I’m concerned that so many Americans feel so angry and entitled. I really hope there’s a consciousness shift coming where people will realize that working hard is really rewarding, and we’ll want to work with whoever is in charge to make our industries thrive and create the best laws.

    I mean, you know I write for ten different sites and they don’t all like the same movies I do but we make it work. I also kind of hope Obama goes, “second term, bitches! Now here’s the real laws.”

  101. I just watched his speech and man, I am filled with emotion, I came close to crying

  102. Congratulations USA!

  103. This was great news for every sane person in the world.

  104. the main taliban candidate was defeated, but there are still members of the fanatically anti-secular, anti-women’s rights, antigay, anti-foreigner, anti-Western civilisation group strategically placed to prevent any progress in Americastan.

    Still, I’m glad Obama got back in.

  105. Congrats guys, fantastic news for everyone.

  106. The thing that’s shocking to me is that despite failing to win the centrist vote, the Republicans think swinging further to the right will win the next one.

  107. Yeah, if the Repubs were smart, they would spend the next four years with showing the world that they are no cartoonish Bond villains and really care for the Average Joe’s who didn’t vote for them.
    (Of course they are cartoonish Bond villains and don’t care at all, so I guess it’s 4 more years of boycotting whatever Obama comes up with.)

  108. @Nabrolean. Romney’s not black? Are you sure about that?

  109. Pot legal in Washington and Colorado. I don’t smoke pot or live in either of those states, but that’s some real fucking progress. Hopefully the feds back off.

    And yeah, Obama winning is ok.

  110. I’m chatbacking from the UK; can I say “Well done America!” whilst breathing a massive sigh of relief.

    The thought of Rmoney winning terrified everyone I know.

    And on a shallower level, 4 more years of Obama zingers as opposed to 4 years of Romney’s ‘stupid is as stupid does’ gaffes is most welcome.

    Loved the heartfelt article, keep up the good work Vern.

  111. ‘Rmoney’ was a typo, but actually quite appropriate…

  112. R-Money is his rap name.

  113. Or the name he uses when he duels in Thunderdome.

  114. I honestly think the Republican party is totally fucked now

  115. Well THANK FUCK for that. Nice one, ‘Murica.

  116. The thing that delights me so is that my few right-wing acquaintances are all bummed out and sad and acting like they’ve been destroyed.

    Good news, guys. Obama is a moderate Republican president in action – a Gerald Ford or an Eisenhower. You’ve got nothing to worry about.

  117. Gives me faith, man. Not just Obama, but an overall strong Democratic showing, a humiliating trouncing for the rape wing of the Republican party, and for the billionaire WWE villain trying to buy an election, plus the election of the first openly gay senator and the most women in the senate ever. It’s not for sure yet but it’s looking like all 4 marriage equality measures (some anti, some pro) are going to go in favor of gay rights. And it’s looking like both Washington and Colorado have legalized recreational marijuana (sorry, Oregon). I’m pretty sure the feds are gonna shut that down, but somebody had to try it, it’ll be interesting to see what happens.

    Still nervous about Washington’s governor race (we switched to all mail-in ballots so none of the results are known yet) but this has gone so much better than expected in all respects that I gotta be happy no matter what happens there.

    Hey Rusty James, you did it!

    Another thing that makes me happy: this seems to have alot to do with demographics. Black and Latino voters increasingly lean Democratic, and are a growing percentage of the population and therefore of voters. Romney’s hardline anti-immigrant phase didn’t attract enough white racists to offset the amount of Latinos it alienated. It seems to me that math just doesn’t work anymore. I hope and believe that this will force out the part of the Republican party that counts on racism and xenophobia to get votes, at least in the national races. They’ll have to quit that racially divisive shit to get into the White House. I think all of us, including our one admitted Romney voter here, would like to see that.

  118. I know pretty much sweet FA about politics but I think you guys done good getting Obama back in.

    Romney chilled me to the bone, he really did.

    Now, can someone please sort out the utter clusterfuck of a political leadership we have here in the UK? Thanks.

  119. Donald Trump once shaved the head of Mr McMahon on WWE. I wish someone handed me some scissors so I could return the favour.

  120. I did my bit and voted, then ignored the results for the first few hours because I just couldn’t take the suspense. I don’t think of a presidential election in which the biological sanctity of my little sisters and nieces is at stake is an entertaining spectacle like the Oscars (which I also don’t watch), so I was all prepared to ignore it until it was over. But I should have known that the streets would let me know when something happened. I started hearing vuvuzelas outside my building around 11:00, which was when I knew everything was going to be okay.

    I know this election was a huge one not just for America but for the whole world, but I can’t help thinking that New York needed it most. We just got our ass kicked by the hurricane (my neighborhood was unscathed but the aftermath, with the trains out of commission for days and severe regulations on automobile traffic, was really difficult on all of us), thousands are homeless (including a good friend of mine), we got a Nor’easter on the way, motherfuckers are beating each other to death over gasoline. We just couldn’t have taken it if Romney won. New York is no place for pussies, but I really think that would have broken our spirit. Thank Crom it didn’t flop that way.

    Shit, Obama even got my subway train running again this morning. It’s a glorious day.

  121. Scissors? How about solvent?

  122. As someone from Denver, I’ll keep you all looped in on the dope ticket. Several people I know think the feds will turn a blind eye on the whole issue until we’ve passed the fiscal cliff and other, more immediate and pressing hurdles. If so, we’ll be in that weird no man’s land where regular people are committing a federal crime with the state’s blessing. Thankfully we’ll be high while doing it, so I won’t be too concerned.

    In other words, just another day in Colorado!

  123. Congrats, Americans. I think I speak on behalf of us Brits when I pass this message on to you:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_IlNbsILLE

  124. The Original... Paul

    November 7th, 2012 at 4:11 pm

    Karlos – we have political leadership over in the UK?

    (In all seriousness – I agree with you, but talk about a hobson’s choice in the next election. You guys think you have it bad with ONE Mitt Romney? We’re probably gonna have THREE of them.)

  125. In the UK they elected the wrong Miliband.

    A cartoon with a lisp vs. A highly effective orator (Cameron does in his defence actually have some ethical rigidity unlike Mitthew Romney (mitthew I’d (c) The Onion)

  126. This was brilliant, Vern.

  127. Uhhm wasn’t it the dems that handily,transparently exploited the racially divisive shit, and divise shit in general. “Hey you blacks and browns, the eeeevil rich white guy doesn’t care about you (pay no attention to the disproportionate surge in your un-employment rates under this administration)”. “Hey chicks, those eeeevil pro-rape republicans are going to ship your vaginas to Afghanistan (pay no attention to the condescending presumption of your perpetual need for/dependance on support from big daddy… ohh and don’t scratch yer purty little heads over how the existence of a “war on” the reproductive rights of the one and only sexual demographic that is ACTUALLY AFFORDED them can be asserted )”. “Hey middle to low income earners, those d-bag fat-cat 1 percenters, who didn’t build that, aren’t anteing up enough ( nevermind that taxing even 75% or more of the income of ONE PERCENT of the population wouldn’t make so much as a dimple in the nation’s economic reality)”. “Hey look everybody, Mitt Romney’s gonna assassinate Big Bird!!! A bit useless at this point, to continue to rail against the face palm shallow vapidity of these bogus memes, or perhaps to point out that conflating a stance of anti- *ILLEGAL* immigration to one of anti-immigration and then attributing said conflation to presumed white racist is itself a bit… but hey everybodies gotta vent.

  128. “Uhhm wasn’t it the dems that handily,transparently exploited the racially divisive shit, and divise shit in general.”


    No. As matter of fact, it was the GoP that was trying to re-institute various Jim Crow laws and make the election a referendum on “American Values.” Values like…Jim Crow Laws. Furthermore, slogans like, “It’s time to take America back” have a very creepy (and intentional) subtext.

    “Hey you blacks and browns, the eeeevil rich white guy doesn’t care about you (pay no attention to the disproportionate surge in your un-employment rates under this administration)”.


    This doesn’t take into account any of the various and massive endemic social issues that cause every recession to hit minority groups harder. And Romney was the guy who literally said that he didn’t care about trying to get any of the Black or Brown vote and that all Black and Brown people (and deployed military folks, and the elderly) are moochers.

    “Hey chicks, those eeeevil pro-rape republicans are going to ship your vaginas to Afghanistan (pay no attention to the condescending presumption of your perpetual need for/dependance on support from big daddy… ohh and don’t scratch yer purty little heads over how the existence of a “war on” the reproductive rights of the one and only sexual demographic that is ACTUALLY AFFORDED them can be asserted )”.


    No. The GoP was and is trying to completely restrict women’s ability to have domain over their own bodies. No Democratic candidate said anything about “Forcible rape” “Legitimate rape” “Some girls rape easy” “Rape is part of G-d’s plan” and none of those statements have anything to do with Planned Parenthood. Planned Parenthood is important primarily because it *gasp* prevents abortion by providing contraceptives for young women and men who otherwise would not have access to reproductive health care due to the aforementioned endemic social issues. And you know what’s cheaper than welfare for a 16-year old’s child…CONDOMS! And BC! You’re conflating about 15 different issues.

    And when the VP candidate cosponsors a bill to change the legal definition of rape to a word that is not defined by any way in law and thus exists entirely outside of Stare Decisis and furthermore has the direct implication that, “You were asking for it,” yes, that is an assault – perhaps even an act of war – on women.

    “Hey middle to low income earners, those d-bag fat-cat 1 percenters, who didn’t build that, aren’t anteing up enough ( nevermind that taxing even 75% or more of the income of ONE PERCENT of the population wouldn’t make so much as a dimple in the nation’s economic reality)”.


    Romney wanted to completely eliminate the capital gains tax, which means that the super rich would ostensibly never pay taxes again and we would move into an oligarchy with a gentry class and a serf class. Also, 1-in-4 corporations paid no income tax. Also also, Romney’s effective tax rate was 16%. Also also also, Obama’s “tax hikes” (which weren’t tax hikes, but rather written-into-law ending of an intentionally limited tax cut that functioned as a dividend for the massive surplus from Clinton, which no longer exists) are still 3% lower than what Reagan instituted. So if Obama is a Socialist, Reagan is fuckin’ Trotsky.

    “Hey look everybody, Mitt Romney’s gonna assassinate Big Bird!!! A bit useless at this point, to continue to rail against the face palm shallow vapidity of these bogus memes,


    Actually, I agree with you on this. Romney included that line in the debate on purpose as a lightening rod to distract from real issues and Obama foolishly took the bait.

    or perhaps to point out that conflating a stance of anti- *ILLEGAL* immigration to one of anti-immigration and then attributing said conflation to presumed white racist is itself a bit… but hey everybodies gotta vent.


    Obama said that children brought to America under the age of 16 could apply for in-state tuition and get scholarships. How many millions of Mexican nationals did Reagan grant amnesty?

  129. Actually, Rogue4, the proposed taxing of the 1% would amount to almost excactly the same sum as lower 50% of the population pay combined.

  130. And considering that the top 1% gets 70+% of the wealth, that seems like a pretty swell deal. Saying that 1% pays X amount of the taxes is a totally useless statistic without also accounting for what percent of income they enjoy.

  131. Hey Rogue, when you throw in that “didn’t build that” reference, are you honestly not aware of the actual context it came from, or are you (like the Romney campaign) pretending to not understand words and ideas in order to have a fake Obama you can attack? If you heard the whole discussion, or even just the one brief sentence that came before it, of course you would understand that Obama was saying that no one business built the roads, the bridges, the internet, the police force and the rest of our infrastructure that we all take advantage of, and that it’s not socialism for Americans to work together to build a society that benefits everyone. Are you seriously outraged by that idea, and if so what the fuck dude?

    If you’re brave enough to hold your nose and follow this link into the dark empire of the Huffington Post there is a good piece about the context of the quote, the larger discussion and a better explanation of it given by Elizabeth Warren:

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/michael-smerconish/you-didnt-build-that-in-c_b_1721794.html

    I know how you feel bud, sort of. You can read my columns from 2000-2008. I found that watching GARFIELD helps, so I recommend that.

    It’s sad that such a big chunk of our country feels betrayed like this every 4-8 years. But when it was our turn we got two wars, the worst terrorist attack in our history, inept disaster response and unprecedented limiting of civil rights. Your side gets, at worst, more competently executed continuations of some of those policies that you thought were great when it was the other guy. Plus health insurance and openly gay soldiers. I think you’ll be okay.

    But seriously. GARFIELD. Do it.

  132. In summary, watch Blade II again.

  133. Funny you mention Jim Crow, Tawdry, as its policies and the KKK were gifted us by guess which political party. Here’s a hint. Big fat *D* in parentheses after George “…segregation today, segregation tommorrow, and segregation forever” Wallace’s name. Historical fact is unfortunately stubbornly uncooperative with bogus memes. But thanks for demonstrating my point. Effectively weaponize (and thereby trivialize ) the accusation of racism and toss it around like candy. Simply assert as self evident fact, without specifically naming any and little to no substantiation beyond one’s “Spidey-sense” for “codes” and “dogwhistles”, the racist policies and “creepy” slogans of the opposition. Analyze “endemic social issues” with no mention of whose policies have held sway in perpetual minority ghettoes in places like Detroit, Washington D.C. for decades. Pretend that the nation’s #1 abortion provider, where a woman can at best get a REFERRAL for a mammogram, is primarily in the the business of providing anything but abortions. And by the by, if those on the liberal side of the fence are so adamant about females’ “Dominion over there bodies” and their absolute right to certain reproductive “choices”, then why the perpetual compulsion to “class up” the business of said “choice” provider with the “various services” rhetoric. Which then culminates in the phony pretense that in 21st century industrialized America defunding Planned Parenthood amounts to restricting anyones access to contraceptives anymore than not lending someone 5 dollars for lunch restricts their access to Big Macs. And by the way if PP is so vital to women’s OVERALL health care services, why would greater good minded liberals not demand they simply drop the abortion services to maintain the Gov funding for “all” those “other” important vital women’s health services. They’d be “gasp” preventing abortions like crazy then… right? Nevermind. Instead of certain statements by certain conservatives being horribly botched attempts at expressing a point about a held belief in sanctity of life, lets pretend as intelligent rational adults that we ACTUALLY believe that it MORESO stands to reason that these individuals were ACTUALLY expressing PRO-RAPE beliefs. That friend is where I just have to stand in awe of your camps Jedi Mastery of straight faced perpetuation of nuclear weapons grade horsesh**t narratives. Your conflation to Romney’s clear remarks about 47% of the pop. paying no income taxes (nevermind that its factual) and being more comfortable with Gov dependency and thereby more likely to vote for Obama to “Romney said he doesn’t care about blacks and latinos” being a perfect example. And it was Romney that needed Big Bird as a distraction?? From what? Stagnant ecomomy? 43 months over 8% unemployment? Skyrocketed spending/debt? Benghazi?

  134. Yes, Rogue, I am well aware of the fact that the GoP and the Democrats switched party platforms. This was mindblowing in the 7th grade but guess what, a rose by any other name would still smell as sweet.*

    For the love of all that is holy, please learn to use paragraphs. And stop abusing the word ‘meme’ it doesn’t make you sound like you’re up to date.

    I’ll probably read the rest of this tomorrow and respond, but just looking at your wall-o-rant is straining my eyes and I already interviewed Dolph Lundgren and rewrote 110 pages today, so I’m just gonna go to bed now.

    *That’s a poop joke.

  135. I’m aware of the actual context of the “you didn’t build that” quote, friendo. I just think the actual context is stupider than the conclusion you presume I and other conservatives are jumping to. First the asinine straw-man that there are people out there saying “I built my business from the dirt with my bare hands and didn’t need roads, bridges, sewers, free enterprise, or the protections of civil society… Cause I’m Captain Awesome.” I don’t think there’s really any business owner out there, large or small denying the benfits of the American system or its infrastructure. But I’m pretty sure the building of that infrastructure was/is funded by tax dollars. The taxed income of the very same business people who “didn’t build that”. Except if their money helped fund it, doesn’t that mean they kinda sorta did build that? So the Presidents overall message is that if you reap any benefit from the infrastructure you paid for, Gov. is then entitled to whatever it deams it’s due from your income… for having performed the task of spending your money.

  136. Yeah, George Wallace was a Democrat (then independent), but it was Nixon, Reagan and G.H.W. Bush that co-opted his approach, and the Democrats that ran away from it. You can pretend “the Southern strategy” doesn’t exist or was started by Jimmy Carter or whatever you want, the point is that our changing population is now leaving it in the dust like so many other embarrassing ideas of the past. And you should be as happy about that as we are since you I’m assuming are against racism.

  137. dem sour grapes, they are delicious!

  138. Yeah, you didn’t build that by yourself, we all built it with taxes. He was defending the concept of taxes, because they’re a bad word these days. And the idea that contributing to the country as a whole is patriotic.

    Anyway, we’re just gonna keep pissing each other off with this, uh, discussion. My message to you Rogue is the same as I would offer to my man Clint: I’m sorry you didn’t get what you wanted, but we’ll try to do a good job and maybe we’ll win you over.

    (Clint more likely than you, I’m afraid.)

  139. Damnit, I shoulda said, “It flipped my Whig when I found out the whole Tory of how the Dems and GoP switched party platforms.”

    Also, I think Rogue specifically doesn’t use paragraphs in order to hide the fact that most of his sentences are not connected. Like, if he were writing at at least a high school level, almost every one of his sentences would require its’ own paragraph because they in no way shape or form follow each other logically. I am going to avoid judgement and personal insults and just say this —

    Rogue: We’re debating here, yes? Well much like in a frat house, in debate, silence is consent. So, I can only assume that you completely agree with every single point of my line-by-line rebuttal to your original post as you have been silent about literally every single specific, on-point, relevant and verifiable fact I presented in the aforementioned post.

    Well, everything except for this portion, “Nevermind. Instead of certain statements by certain conservatives being horribly botched attempts at expressing a point about a held belief in sanctity of life,”

    By ‘certian conservatives” I meant,

    Roger Rivard who, In response to a rape case where a 14-year-old girl was held down and sexually assaulted in her school band room, Wisconsin State Rep. Roger Rivard told a newspaper that his father once gave him some great advice: “some girls rape easy.”

    Allen West has been a vocal supporter of such measures as the now-infamous Let Women Die Bill, which would have allowed hospitals to refuse emergency abortion care to women on religious grounds. And while he sternly shook his head and wagged his finger at Todd Akin, he was among the Congressmen in support of “forcible rape” terminology.

    Michele Bachmann has echoed the Republican talking point that pregnancy as the result of rape is “very rare.” She believes in Personhood, but has made a point of saying that a personhood amendment to the constitution should contain an exception for women undergoing In Vitro Fertilization. But not rape victims.

    Paul Ryan referred to rape as a “method of conception.” Ryan has also teamed up with Todd Akin to sponsor legislation that would make it more difficult for rape victims to access abortion care.

    Linda McMahon, During a debate this year, McMahon clarified that she believed that hospitals should be required to provide emergency contraception to victims of “emergency rape.”

    Rick Berg http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xKQwFyssnNE&feature=player_embedded . Also used sexist terms in many of his advertisements calling his opponent, “Heidi ho”

    Richard Mourdock Said during a debate that he believes that rape pregnancies are a gift from God.

    Tom Smith Here’s Pennsylvania Senate candidate Tom Smith explaining how getting raped and becoming pregnant is sort of exactly like being the father of a daughter who has a baby out of wedlock. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TsdvHXWbUzc&feature=player_embedded

    Steve King told reporters earlier this year that he’s never heard of a woman becoming pregnant as a result of rape or incest, and so rape and incest exceptions to abortion law are silly.

    Joe Walsh, “Outside of the very rare circumstances such as ectopic pregnancies, and other rare health issues, the research is pretty clear that with the advances in modern medicine, an invasive and traumatic procedure like an abortion is not necessary to save the life of a mother,” says Joe Walsh.

    Rick Santorum supports forcing rape victims to give birth to their rapists’ babies. Like Richard Mourdock, has said that rape pregnancies are a gift from God.

    Scott Brown during his tenure as a state legislator, he sponsored legislation that would have allowed hospitals to refuse rape victims emergency contraception based on religious beliefs.

    All elected officials. All speaking in official, on the record capacity. All doing it during an election year. These aren’t, “Some conservatives.” It’s a clear and massive trend. How the fuck is “Some girls rape easy” in reference to a 14-year old’s rape AT SCHOOL saying anything about the sanctity of life? How the fuck is saying that there should be no legal abortions, even in cases where the mother’s life is at risk, discussing the sanctity of life? How the fuck is saying that “Rape is a gift from god” discussing the sanctity of life?

    RESPOND TO WHAT I HAVE ACTUALLY SAID, PLEASE.

  140. But Tawdry, none of those people were actually being PRO-rape. They were just being monstrously dismissive of it. You know, like heroes would do.

  141. I just want to say that although Rogue4’s right wing talking point machine gun attacks get my blood boiling (especially when they happen during a rare liberal Ewok Celebration) I appreciate that for some reason he keeps reading outlawvern.com. I don’t think I’d be able to stick with a writer who brings up politics as much as I do that infuriate me as much as mine must infuriate Rogue. I hope that our common ground as lovers of movies can somehow bring all of us to some kind of understanding as people.

  142. Well played, Majestyk. Well played.

    For the record, I mostly copied and pasted most of that from an article on Jezebel.com. I meant to cite that in my original post. here is the link: http://jezebel.com/5958480/team-rape-lost-big-last-night . apologies for the oversight.

  143. You know, listening to someone like Rouge4… it makes me wonder, did I sound like that during the Bush years? My hatred of Bush had to be at least equal to his hatred of Obama, and as ridiculous as his doomsday predictions about an Obama administration are, I’m sure I had my doubts that civilization could survive a second Bush term. I’m sure I was about as bitter, and about as aggressive about it at times. Did I allow my tribalism and anger at a perceived “other” get the better of me and just turn into an equivalent wingnut? I mean, as much as I disagreed with Bush, civilization did not end. A lot of people’s lives got fucked up, a lot of things got worse in the country, but not all of that was directly Bush’s fault (I don’t think it’s really reasonable to blame him, or any one person particularly, for the financial collapse, for instance). Was I right to be that upset, or was I just overreacting because I had too much personally invested in national politics?

    I guess the question comes down to… is anyone who panics over the course the country is taking merely a reactionary nut, or are some people legitimately right and others are crazy? I try to be reasonable and logical, but I also know that I’m probably just as vulnerable to rationalizing bad behavior and unsupported causes with faulty logic as anyone is. Was I really glad Obama won because I’m right that his policies will be better for the country? Or was I just glad because I feel as scared and victimized by the right wing as Rogue4 does by the left, and it’s become a personal conflict only superficially tied to the nominal politics?

    I mean, I feel like the level of partisanship in this country has honestly reached the point where I’m either right, or I’m completely crazy and everything I feel like I understand is just a bunch of cobbled-together denial and rationalization. But how can you know? How you do you guys deal with asking yourself how to behave sensibly and honorably, when faced with such a starkly divided nation and so much paranoid screaming? I mean, one side is clearly out of line here, but they both claim that it’s the other. I claim that it’s the other. But how can you know if you’re right?

  144. Rouge4, I think that Obama’s first 4 years as president deserve scrutiny, but all your complaints feel like you are just regurgitating conservative talking points and you seem unwilling or incapable of supporting any of those ideas with any true explanation to support your point.

    You are right that almost 47% of Americans don’t pay any taxes, they are either elderly, active duty military, or making less than 20k a year.

  145. Maybe because the wrong side would’ve never posed a question like that?

    I don’t know, but that’s a great post, Subtlety. I feel the same way when I see Rogue’s posts. I think back to some of those columns I wrote. They were very cathartic but I’m sure some of them sounded kind of like that, long tirades hitting on a million different news stories I had read at the time, tearing through references too fast for anybody to know what the fuck I was talking about, especially later on when nobody remembers those news stories anymore. I think I made some coherent points too, but I’m positive there was some Rogue4 raging in me. Or Bizarro Rogue4 I guess.

  146. During Bush II there were common discussions of how he planned 9/11 and lied to get us into Iraq for reasons of personal vendetta and/or oil interests. One of those is true, but the accusations that Obama is a socialist and a Kenyan/Muslim are no where near as vicious.

  147. Well now you know Main Man, that the “friendos” aren’t thrown in just for show. Of coarse I’m a fan. Of coarse I dig your writing. I’ll be readin your stuff for as long as the sites up. Lookin forward to Universal Soldier DoR. We disagree on the politics of the day. Period, full stop. I can keep comin back, because your views DON’T infuriate me. Don’t make my blood boil. And if it’s not to much of a shocker, your not talkin to a Bush fan/apologist. Irresistibly convenient as I know it must be to toss that card, sorry to tell ya that many conservatives aren’t. I disagree, (with viewpoints on an open/interactive discussion forum) I drop my 2 cents (discuss/interact). I do so (or certainly make the best attempt) in a manner that maintains the standard of class and civility you exemplify for this site. Provided we agree that aggressive debate with a touch of snark, doesn’t equate to insult. I’m less than impressed with “President Kardashian” and the narrative directed at conservatives, and so I express. And paragraph-less structure of my posts aside, I think I make my points concisely enough. Clear enough, apparently, to get short order multiple responses from individuals like Tawdry, and well, yourself. And thanks for not lettin me down Tawdry, by right on cue, floating the “dixiecrat ,parties magically switched sides” response. Maybe you shoulda left that one in the seventh grade dude.

  148. But, they did switch sides.

    Modern politics in America suck because everything is based on demographic appeal. Clearly, stay out of my bedroom/doctor’s office/gun safe/uterus/weed stash/bank account are all conservative ideas. Unfortunately, the burgeoning Neo-Con movement tied its’ yolk to batshit crazy Evangelical Christians while the Dems moved toward minority appeal, thus creating two conflicting, if not outright schizophrenic party platforms.

    A “Culture of life” should logically oppose abortion, support socialized medicine, oppose the death penalty, support strict gun control, oppose warhawk mentality, support early childhood education. You see how those would form a coherent worldview instead of a “Culture of life” that opposes abortion, but also loves guns, death penalty, war hawking and totally abhors spending any money to support those ‘Gifts from G-d’ that rape results in about 32,000 times a year.

    Also, being an effective troll (and let’s face it, if nothing else, your racism against paragraphs is clearly trolling) doesn’t mean you actually said something smart.

    You certainly do ‘coarse’-en the discourse though.

  149. I don’t know… do I ask about “President Kardashian” or do I move on?

  150. You see, Obama is popular in social media with the young people. You know, ‘memes’? So, he’s pretty much exactly the same thing as a reality tv star. The same way that being raped is pretty much the same thing as having a baby outside of wedlock. (No, I’m not going to just drop it.)

  151. Again, Rogue clearly doesn’t actually have any reason to hate Obama. The Kardashian/Obama comparison was a Republican radio meme and SuperPAC talking point from 2008. There is no way that a rational human being could find that comparison apt in 2012 since the entire premise was that Obama was only a ‘viable’ candidate because he had big name recognition and that we should second guess him as a candidate because we had no idea what he would actually do in office.

    But now we know exactly what he would do in office, since he has been in office for 4 years. So, it doesn’t make sense to use that phrase to cast aspersion any longer.

    Christ, I just spent more time thinking about this than Rogue ever has.

  152. Obama does stink. He has basically kept up the same foreign policy crap that Bush did, just added robots that kill innocent people on top of it. Those that engaged in anti-war protests for Bush should be doing the same for Obama.

    But he’s still better than the other guy. That’s all he is.

  153. It’s no secret that ever since Ronald Reagan was elected in 1980 we Europeans haven’t excactly had the greatest respect for the American political system or your political leaders. That’s why it’s such a joy to witness debates such as this, and to know that your President is one of the most sympathetic world leaders these days. Right now the EU leaders are more hated than the American President over here, and that’s a first for us. Keep up the good work.

  154. Mr. Subtlety: I don’t remember you ever writing anything that Noam Chomsky or William S. Burroughs wouldn’t have been proud to put his name on, even in the darkest days of the last administration. And I haven’t seen you succumb to a blind hagiography of Obama, which is usually the flip side of mindless vitriol.

    Of course, even if you do become a wingnut, the Disco Fassbinder garb makes it go down much easier.

  155. Here’s a pretty cool free pdf book about how the other side thinks:

    http://members.shaw.ca/jeanaltemeyer/drbob/TheAuthoritarians.pdf

  156. If you really want to amuse yourselves, go to Mitt’s Facebook and refresh the page every ten seconds or so. Pay attention to how many “likes” he has.

  157. onthewall2983 – that’s quite something.

    I assume you’ve seen this?

    http://whitepeoplemourningromney.tumblr.com/

  158. Jam – that site is solid fried comedy gold

  159. and Papa John’s is shitty pizza, even by delivery standards

  160. So re: Papa John’s, i have to ask if what he said is really that bad? I mean, everyone’s mocking the “10-14 cents a pizza” increase thing like he’s being a tightwad and should just eat the cost himself, but considering how many millions of pizzas he sells, i’m sure it adds up significantly. I mean let’s be honest – a ton of business owners will probably raise prices to pass costs on to the consumer – one dude decides to be up front about it, and next thing you know my facebook is flooded with people calling for a boycott and showing pictures of how big his house is, how he has enough money, etc… It’s kinda like what Vern said about people and taxes – basically sure, we’re all for Obamacare, but then when someone lets us know it might have negative consequences or hit our own pocket, then it’s all “fuck that tea bagger!” etc… I dunno, I’m a huge liberal but this sudden dog-piling on Papa John’s reminds me of some right-wing tactic shit.

    And btw, yes, Papa John’s is terrible. I never understood why that was the go-to pizza of all work and school functions.

  161. Neal:
    I’m not going to pile on a pizza I’ve never eaten. Personally, I’m not a fan of American-style pizza; more a thin Italian crust man, myself.

    These price increases happen all over the world, all the time. For him to come out – at this particular time and place – and make a point of blaming it on THAT GUY I DIDN’T SPEND MILLIONS ENDORSING, well, it just seems kinda bitter.

    Having said that, I didn’t know there was some kind of Facebook campaign against ‘em. Don’t have Papa Johns over here.

  162. the only decent thing about Papa John’s is the tomato sauce, everything else is really mediocre and bland

  163. Their thin crust is better than the usual hand-tossed.

  164. for no reason at all I’m going to post this photo

  165. Here’s your winning ticket for 2016:

    Powered by cheeseballs and Reese’s Pieces.

  166. A transparent metaphor for bein big on glamour and short on substance, friendo.

  167. E.T. has the Christ-like power to heal people, also he’s an alien, whatchu talkin’ bout he wouldn’t be a good President? also Rain Man is like really good with math, maybe he could fix the economy (though in this day and age, him being autistic, it’s more likely he would spend his days playing with Legos and Sonic The Hedgehog video games and then drawing awful comics about his “Sonic-Chu” original character)

  168. But how could you possibly believe he has no substance, when you’ve just spewed so many angry words about so many different facets of all the different things he stands for that you so strongly disagree with? Of course he has substance. That’s completely absurd. Because he did some fundraisers with some movie stars instead of just billionarie business tycoons, you’re gonna compare an obviously brilliant man, the first black president, a leader respected all around the world, to the daughter of the guy who got O.J. off who became a celebrity because she gave Brandy’s brother a blowjob? Please, bud-o, take that one back. Have some respect both for the country and for your own dignity.

    And by the way, Mitt Romney did a fundraiser with a way better movie star than Obama did. So I guess he’s Paris Hilton.

  169. You really love to post pictures here, don’t you? :D

  170. I just thought those photos were funny and wanted to share them

  171. But you are not helping Dustin Hoffmans chances of being elected president by spreading these creepy photos of him…

  172. Well friendo, me and my dignity will await the President’s “substantive” answer to the Benghazi tragedy. Uhh, I meant his second substantive answer, as the first was that it was caused by a 14min youtube clip. I think telling that to the entirety of the U.S. citizenry doesn’t demonstrate much respect for the country, but uhm tomato/tomauto guess.

  173. You know, it makes it pretty hard to have a rational discussion when you completely ignore counter-arguments in favour of jamming in whatever vaguely Obama-related thought pops into your head.

  174. “as the first was that it was caused by a 14min youtube clip”

    because uhhhhhh…..it was? are you trying to say the Arabs weren’t pissed off over that youtube clip? because buddy, you’re wrong

  175. I think in retrospect it seems clear that significant militant factions took advantage of public anger over that stupid video to stage an attack which they were already planning. They possibly knew, as we do now, that the consulate was also a CIA cover. The administration had to tread lightly in describing exactly what happened in the early days of the attack as a way to cover for the clandestine CIA activities there. Honestly, it’s obvious that some shady CIA stuff was being done there and the administration was working to prevent this from coming out. But I don’t necessarily see any clear wrongdoing, and the “controversy” has morphed from complaints that Obama “apologized” for America to so-far baseless allegations that people moved too slowly to protect them, to now vague accusations of wrongdoing because they didn’t immediately spill to the press what exactly was going on there. It’s a weird situation, but I don’t really know that Obama in particular owes anyone an explanation for what the CIA was up to out there.

  176. maybe the terrorist groups themselves created that video in order to sir shit up?

  177. maybe the terrorist groups themselves created that video in order to stir shit up?

  178. So what is supposed to be the advantage over if the attackers took advantage of the protesters or not? And if there is an advantage then why did they then correct themselves? And why does it seem implausible to you that some facts about the attack would be wrong at first and then have to be corrected?

    I guess I just don’t get this particular conspiracy. And also how it has even remotely anything to do with your claim that Obama has no substance like a famous dick sucking rich girl from TV. So I still think you should admit that the Kardashian comment was really fuckin dumb.

  179. I think it’s fascinating how clueless the American right are about how much the rest of the world hates the American war machine. If it’s one thing that unite people all over the globe it’s the desire to see the US army go home and stay there. The fuse is constantly lit, and people will at times go apeshit over far less offensive things than the mentoned video.

  180. Guys, I love you all but the only ones being stupid are the ones that continue to argue with those that are so willfully hateful and willing to lie.

    Four more years :)

  181. Not in America, but ROGUE4 and the GoP mainstream support this!

    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/frontpage/2012/1114/1224326575203.html

    This is literally the *exact* thing that all us crazy abortion-loving Pinkos are talking about when we discuss the importance of proper reproductive care for women. Multiple mainstream GoP officials (several of whom I already listed above) support legislation that would make this type of incident a regular occurrence in America.

  182. Rogue4: Serious question. You’re clearly a Dittohead, what did you make of Limbaugh’s recent accusations that the Hurricane in Florida on the weekend of the GoP Convention was a liberal conspiracy to hurt the GoP? Also, what did you make of Limbaugh’s assertion that Hurricane Sandy was a liberal conspiracy in the days leading up to that storm’s devastating arrival. And what do you make of Limbaugh’s further assertion that Obama would use Sandy as an excuse to cancel the election for a year? He didn’t just say these things as passing jokes; he went on about these “conspiracies” for at least 15 minutes on at least 3 consecutive days, each.

  183. Busted. Yeah, I yanked that “frivolous” Benghazi “triviality” right outta my backside. Of course it and the President taking credit during the second debate for having called it a terrorist attack the next day, despite that being flatly contradicted by himself and his administration calling it anything but for 2 weeks following said statement ( and floating the ol’ deflectionary “the very suggestion is offensive sir” righteous indignation okeydoke to boot ) has no implications toward Presidential/leadership type substance whatsoever. Sorry friendos. I’ll catch up with ya’ll on the next cool movie decon.

  184. Rogue — So what, exactly, do you see as the problem here? It seems logical that there was quite a bit of confusion about what exactly happened on the ground and where the attack originated. They certainly would have been irresponsible to rush to judgement about what exactly happened, potentially inflaming an already bad situation. Further, it seems even more logical that if the consulate was indeed a CIA center of some kind, the White House would be obligated to obfuscate somewhat as a cover. That seems to cover the confusion about who knew what and when pretty well. I simply don’t see what you’re getting so worked up about. I’m not sure if you want a serious discussion or not, but if you genuinely are interested in a dialogue, here’s you’re chance. What specifically are you unhappy with Obama about over Benghazi?

  185. Wow, I expected some sort of convoluted sarcasm that didn’t come close to backing up your argument but threw a bunch of other vague Rush Limbaugh talking points into the mix like so many smoke pellets. A sincere apology was the LAST thing I expected, so hats off to you Rogue4, and your apology is accepted.

  186. Oh man. It took me like 10 minutes to get that the above post was a mirror of Rogue’s thinking. Well played. *Slow Clap*

  187. Lets play a game friendos. Lets pretend that on the eve of an incumbent Republican’s bid for reelection, a murderous attack takes place on an apparently less than fortified US embassy in a certain part of the world, coinciding with a certain date. Said Republican incumbent’s administration announces that said murderous attack was a reaction to a youtube vid that virtually no one in its very country of origin had seen or heard of before the announcement, but had somehow made the rounds in the mid-east. Amid bits of info beginning to surface that said Republican’s administration might have known beforehand about impending peril for said embassy (and the unavoidable questions such could raise about said administration’s foreign policy and competence, amidst their reelection bid) said admin’s story changes over the following weeks from “maybe it wasn’t the youtube vid”, to “it’s still under investigation” to a contradictory about face of “I called it a terrorist attack the very next day in my rose garden speech” by said Repub. CiC.
    Lets also pretend that said Republican made a much celebrated “evolution” on the issue of gay marriage that curiously didn’t seem to involve anything vaguely resembling a principle or risk. That is to say “evolving” to the position (just before his reelection bid) of being personally in favor of gay marriage but maintaining that it be an issue left for the individual states to decide. A transparent position at best and a traitorous one at worst, given that the prevailing progressive notion is that said issue is nothing less than a civil rights matter. So he’d evolved to leaving a civil rights matter to the states’ discretion. Very Lincoln.

    Lets also pretend that said Republican had made a major part of his campaign pointing the finger at the opposition’s “war on women” and then took to the stage with a rap artist (a musical genre rife with messages of female empowerment) known for a tune titled “99 problems, but a BITCH aint one” as said artist performed a barely altered version of said misogynistic tune. But this of course was after accepting a million dollars from a comedian who refers to females (democrat females, that is) in the political arena as cunts, dumb twats, and boobs while at the same time, being so “moved” by the hurling of a sexist slur at a female champion of contraceptive access (republican champion, that is) that he just had to give her a paternally reassuring phone call.

    Still nothing to see there, right friendos. Still no implications toward Presidential/leadership type substance in any of that, right. Okay.

    Oh, and as it was in fact my sincere suggestion and intent to let it go with the previous post, Know Main Man, that this is in fact a sincere apology for jumping back in. Sorry friendos.

  188. Rogue4- Thanks dude, you’ve offered up irrefutable proof that those of us around here who either voted for Obama, or merely wished he would be re-elected(damn foriegners) are in fact utter hypocrites.

    The fact that Obama would choose to have a vile misogynistic artist/entrepreneur, take the stage at his re-election, is obviously as affecting to Women’s reproductive rights as statements of intent by Republican candidates or incumbents like Todd Akin, Paul Ryan, Rick Santorum or Clay Williams.

    Thanks friendo, I’m sure Tawdry won’t directly respond to your post, because let’s face it, you totally owned us on this, we’re are nothing but sheep who were duped with Obama’s unsubstantiave populist rhetoric. Hell I’m not even mentioning Romneys theme writer Kid Rock who has never uttered any misogyny in any of his songs. I’m sorry I didn’t have anywhere further to go with this. Rouge4 – I’d never tell anyone on this site to go fuck themselves, but I have no idea how to finish this post.

  189. I’m glad you brought it up, because Obama actually understands Jay-Z’s music and although I’m sure he hates the word “bitch” he wouldn’t share your clueless Tipper Gore interpretation of the song. One thing that makes Obama relatable and respectable to me is that he has a nuanced understanding of hip hop and similar feelings to me about not liking its themes of materialism and sexism but respecting other aspects of the music and culture. He actually recently explained why he preferred another Black Album song, “My 1st Song” to “99 Problems.” That’s not a Kardashian answer, that’s a deep cut. He also talked about allowing his daughter to listen to whatever music she wants to while not wanting to listen to some of it with her because the language would embarrass him. Before he was elected he also had some cool things to say about Jay-Z’s underrated American Gangster album.

    He’s actually very smart and knowledgeable about hip hip. I imagine most politicians understand “99 Problems” about as much as you seem to there, so no, Obama hits this one out the park. He is actually very substantial on this subject.

    Kardashians don’t listen to Gil Scott Heron, friendy.

    Anyway, what a corny red herring to even bring that up! He could be on a Mardi Gras float shaped like a giant ass, performing a medley of 2 Live Crew’s greatest hits, it still wouldn’t be comparable to Republicans making actual laws to limit women’s reproductive rights, access to health care and equal pay.

    Instead of pretending there’s no attack on women, just tell your friendos to stop doing it. That would be easier.

  190. I’m still waiting for a president who can recite the lyrics to Yes’ TALES OF TOPOGRAPHIC OCEANS without hesitation. Not sure I’d vote for him, but it would be cool.

  191. Of course you wouldn’t Windows, or even allude to such. Enlightened, tolerant progressive that you are. That’s fer us backwards hateful hating conservatives right. Darn it, why can’t I act the part.

    On to red herrings. As I’m curious about exactly what reproductive rights you Main Man, or any of the rest of our male friendos, think you have, I’m still trying to figure out how a “war on” the reproductive rights of the one and only sexual demographic that is actually afforded them can be asserted. Oh I know how. By bogusly conflating the suggestion of suspension of/ limitations on, public funding in the arena of abortion/ contraception as a call to abolish abortion/ contraception. Cause its not “her body, her choice” its “her body, your money, her choice”, or you hate women you misogynistic hateful hating hater you! As if an individual couldn’t be as pro-choice as the day is long, yet still conclude they shouldn’t have to chip in on someone else’s “choice”. That is to say, said individual concluding that said “choice” should *genuinely* be none of their business. Lets make up our minds my progressive friendos.

    Sooo the President hates the word “bitch” (or so you conveniently assume, Main Man) just not enough to take a decisive stand on its casual use by certain hip hop artists (especially if such would distance him from the epicenter of “cool”). Ya know, like he did against “slut” when it was uttered by a not so cool talk radio host. Such inconsistency having no implications whatsoever towards…

  192. A: The song is not called, “99 Problems but a Bitch Ain’t One.”
    B: The song 99 Problems is mostly about like, knowing your civil rights. Seriously. That’s not a joke. It’s honestly got an *entire* verse about 4th Amendment rights. That song is the most patriotic rap song I can think of.
    C: The song is in no way notable for misogynistic content. You should understand this, since you’re our resident expert on misogyny.
    D: You’re a rape apologist who supports letting women die on gurneys as part of your, ‘Culture of life’ so your feigning concern about offensive rap lyrics comes off as clearly insincere.
    E: Seriously, how is, “Some girls rape easy” a sincere comment about the sanctity of life? Especially when it’s said in reference to a 14-year old girl who was raped in the band room at her high school during school hours? I’d really like to know.
    F: you.

    Post Script: Thank you for being more tolerant of paragraphs.

  193. Rogue4 — Listen man, I’m playing the game, but I’m still not seeing what has you so angry. The attack occurred the same day as the mass protests over the video in Egypt, which focused on the embassy and subsequently spread to other countries. The situations were similar enough that it seems natural to connect them, and, indeed, I think the most likely scenario is that many, possibly MOST of the protestors were there over the video and local militants used the protest as a cover for a (probably planned) assault. Given that, I don’t think it at all unreasonable that exactly what occurred was unclear and they didn’t immediately want to claim it was a terrorist attack if they were not sure. Perhaps they did under-prepare, or miscalculate the danger. The evidence for that seems pretty weak right now, but it’s always a possibility. But even if that were so, I don’t get the outrage. I see no evidence whatsoever of gross negligence, but rather a confusing and turbulent situation where a million possible factors are always in play. Unexpected tragedies are part of running a country, man. Maybe something will come up, but… right now there just doesn’t seem much cause for outrage. Just sadness at a tragic loss of life from violence.

  194. Voted for Biden again, with the not-so-minor side-conciliation that it was also a vote for Obama. Unfortunately, this time around it didn’t contribute to a Dem victory in North Carolina (I am infinitely proud to have helped narrowly turn this state blue in 2008.), but I’m ecstatic that the Dem win was decisive in the national count and the Electoral College count.

    With neither the time nor the inclination to ‘splain politicking to Rogue4 and our other conservative friends here, I’ll just say that they should be happy to have a traditional, pragmatic Republican (His middle name is Hussein.) controlling the Executive Branch for 4 more years. I know I am.

  195. Mouth – You know comedians are praying for Biden ’16. God imagine if he and Hillary ran against each other in ’16, and the White House is forced to either back the loyal hatchet man or the former Sec. of State.

    I do find it weird that for all the blabber about the GOP needing to expand its voting outreach to Hispanics and minorities and whatever, minority-wise they’re potentially got a deep bench for ’16 in Marco “Ken Doll” Rubio, Susan Martinez, and Bobby Jindal, while the Dems in the names mentioned most so far (Hillary/Biden/Cuomo) are about as sour cream as you can get.

    And you know what? Token candidates won’t mean a fucking thing unless they’re backed with a platform said voting bloc likes. Seriously how many times have the GOP run local/state black candidates who didn’t win and (usually) lost the black vote? Or for that matter, the two times the national tickets nominated a woman as running mate, said tickets both lost the women vote.

    (Here’s free advice for the GOP: your base/talk radio, especially when it comes to Immigration issues, won Obama the Latino vote. Twice.)

  196. NYT is reporting that Jeb Bush is “mulling” a Presidential run.

    I get to re-use an old bumper sticker from ’00: “The White House already has a Rose Garden. It don’t need another Bush.”

  197. not ANOTHER fucking Bush, how many of them shitheads are there?

  198. Behind every bush lies an asshole

  199. Republicans really want Jeb Bush. And they can probably sell him to the public on “likability.” please, can we vote for leaders on competence first?

  200. Fred- Exactly. You don´t choose a dentist or a doctor because how likeable he is, its how competent he is. Dr House may be an insensitive asshole, but he gets the job done

  201. Beyond leaders and experts, I have a hard time with “like able” people in general. Usually I see alphas appeal to their following of underlings and ultimately they learn there’s nothing underneath that veneer. I see it in my field and in general, people love the friendly party animal pal and the they wonder why none of these promises deliver. I just bow out and handle my own business and get shit done.

    Relationships too. How many female friends pine over some carefree spontaneous dreamboat and wonder why he’s never consistent or reliable? I guess the abs have something to do with it, and I don’t have time to work on the abs when I’m so busy getting shit done and being where I say I’m going to be.

    Dr. House is a bigger issue. He doesn’t just know what’s ailing you, he knows everything. It’s tough when you know everything to suffer fools. We need House. Listen to House. He’ll help you cut out that self destructive shit, just bad life behavior.

  202. I’ll take a cue from Vern and post something several weeks after the point of its most timely relevance:

    http://whatthefuckhasobamadonesofar.com/

  203. I just realized what Americans politics need less of and more of

    we need less Tribalism and more Tribadism! that’d be the platform I’d run on

  204. Fox News has banned Karl Rove and Dick Morris from appearing on the channel.

    Temporarily only apparently, but still how delicious, how sweet.

    http://nymag.com/daily/intel/2012/12/fox-news-puts-karl-rove-on-the-bench.html

  205. Since we’re on the subject of Fox “News”, and this is the only way into American politics I have, what the hell is up with the “war on christmas” they go on about in the O’Reilly camp?

    Or more rethorically, isn’t it common knowledge in the USA that the holiday called christmas was taken from the gentile festival Yule and tweaked into being a christian celebration, even if the historical Jesus wasn’t born on that date or even that year?

  206. Pegsman — what’s up with the “war on Christmas?” Same thing that’s up with every ridiculous thing O’Reilly says. Ratings. Nothing more, nothing less. It’s a moneymaker every time, so they keep doing it. If it ever stopped being profitable, it would instantly an immediately go away forever.

  207. Yeah, the “war on christmas” is something they seem to be doing every year around christmas. And how is it a war really? Does it have any human casualties?

  208. I know O’Reilly’s nuts, but I don’t get how he can score ratings by saying that the people who invented the whole holiday – the tree, Santa, food, presents, drinks – are going to ruin it?! Are his viewers THAT clueless?

  209. O’Reilly has a very specific demographic — older, white men who need validation that they’re being oppressed. Simple as that. As long as they’re alive, he’ll keep making money by playing this card, no matter how ridiculous he might get. His viewers are mostly fine being fed whatever gibberish he can come up with as long as it supports their warped worldview. They’ve already written off all “mainstream” news and science, so there’s not much left to keep them tied to reality.

  210. “Since we’re on the subject of Fox “News”, and this is the only way into American politics I have, what the hell is up with the “war on Christmas” they go on about in the O’Reilly camp?”

    it all ties back into the belief of American Christians that there’s a shadowy conspiracy, be it from atheists or satanists or who knows what, to destroy Christianity and they use movies, music, video games, television, what have you, to try to do so and the idea of any Christian references being censored is part of that

    a persecution complex is absolutely fundamental to American Christian culture, any true Christian worth his or her salt believes that Christianity is under siege from all sides by the Devil, they HAVE to believe this, no matter what the evidence says otherwise, that’s why you hear so many of them complain about a lack of “prayer in schools” as if it would be just A-ok to force kids who may not be Christians to pray to the Christian God (more on that later)

    and to a degree, they’re right, Christians have COMPLETELY lost control of mainstream popular culture, Christian themed movies or music are a totally isolated thing these days and that makes them angry, they’re even starting to slowly lose their iron grip on American politics and you better believe THAT makes them angry, hence all the hate for Obama, because they perceive him to be anti-Christian, despite the fact that he says other wise (but of course, when have facts ever gotten in the way of Christian belief?)

    what it all boils down to is Christians don’t want to live among non-Christians, they want America to be a “Christian nation” basically a Christian version of the middle east, where everyone is Christian, the Government is run by Christians and makes decisions based on Christianity

    it all started with Roe v. Wade basically, that was the first political decision made against Christianity and was the real first shot in the ongoing American culture war, all the hippies and shit was just a build up, it was when a lot of Christians first realized that they do not control the Government anymore and that made them really, really ANGRY

    and they do have a reason to be afraid, ironically, the only strength they have left is numbers, there are still a lot of Christians in America, but soon they will lose even that too, as the next generations grow up you are gonna see a steady decline in people who identify themselves as Religious, they’ve already lost the war, they just don’t realize it yet, but it’s not the result of the Devil or some conspiracy, but simply the march of progress

  211. Thanks guys for taking your time to write about this.

  212. Wow, that’s very nicely put, Griff.

  213. Vern, I didn’t know your state hasn’t elected a GOP Governor since 1980.

  214. We keep cutting it close, though. In 2004 there were recounts for days. Or was that 2008? Time flies when you haven’t elected a GOP Governor since 1980.

    Like the country as a whole we have many Republican-favoring counties, including basically the entire east side of the state. But then the cities are very liberal, and by definition cities have a bunch of people in them, and they vote.

  215. Well anyway, a happy week for your state legalizing gay marriage (or keeping it legal, that’s a more accurate reflection of what happened last month, right?) and oh yeah, pot.

    Did they attach any regulations to it? I just know Colorado had a shitload of them attached to legalizing pot which quite honestly sounded reasonable and responsible to me. I can’t remember them all, but several seemed in intent to keep the new pot stores from becoming Drug Cartel fronts. 24/7 video surveillance by store owners of the pot they’re growing, 50-60% (can’t remember which) of the pot they do sell must be grown in-store andby owners, etc.

    Again sounds reasonable if you ask me. I just wonder if and when Obama will go ultra-right wing on all this because I guess he’s ashamed of being a successful stoner or because he’s still afraid of being called soft on drugs by the right wing?

    (Has anybody wondered why pot and gay marriage seemed to have spiked in support seemingly simultaneously in recent years?)

  216. You know, I honestly don’t know that much about the legal pot other than that I smelled alot of it today. I know that a few counties dropped all of their pending misdemeanor cases as soon as it passed. It’s legal to possess up to a certain amount, but I think you have to be licensed to sell or grow it. I’m skeptical about how far they’ll get with that since even if the feds decide not to stop it that could change in 4 years or 4 years after that. I read that no banks will give loans to start marijuana related businesses because they don’t want to get in trouble with the feds. But I also read that some ex-Microsoft guy is starting a “premium” marijuana company for rich people, he compares it to selling Cognac or fancy cigars. So we’ll see how that goes.

    If they can somehow get it working and the tax money gets the state rolling then I bet other states will follow. But that first if is a big if.

    As far as the possession, that part actually isn’t much of a change in Seattle because we’d already passed a law that possession was the lowest priority crime for police officers to respond to, so there was alot of pretty brazen public joint smoking anyway.

  217. Nice speech by Obama yesterday. But I guess it’s too much to hope for some muscle behind the rethoric.

  218. Yeah, unfortunately Obama has the same problem Netanyahu does, which is that peace is a born loser from a political perspective. Right now, Israel gets to do whatever it wants with no consequences, right-wing politicians get to have a boogieman to fire their bases up and blame instead of solving real problems. What’s the incentive to do anything? Republicans benefit from scaremongering about Islamic terrorism and by getting money from psychopathic Christians who believe Israel and Palestine need to fight in order to bring about the end times (seriously, this is a major belief and a big moneymaker for right-wingers). And Obama may not like it, but he needs votes from elderly Jews to whom even the lightest criticism of Israeli policy is viewed as a betrayal, and also knows that any statement on the subject brings forth a firestorm of one-sided reporting and withering criticism from conservatives while doing neither him nor the world any good. You know who he doesn’t need votes from? Palestinians. And what are people who genuinely want peace going to do, vote for Romney? And hey, even in Palestine being constantly oppressed is a major benefit to some movers and shakers who ride the wave of public resentment into positions of power.

    Hence, even though everyone involved knows exactly how to achieve peace, no one can do anything to make it happen. They have to say they want it, but nothing will really be done until the people of Israel and Palestine decide to do it themselves. That’s the most important aspect of the speech Obama gave in Israel, and the only thing with any chance of actually gaining momentum. But as long as the political situation in the US and Israel remains the same, no help will come from those quarters, you have my 100% guarantee.

    Anyway, we should all watch GATEKEEPERS and have the worst comments section of all time.

  219. The funny thing is, if Israel keeps this up they’ll pretty have to make a choice; being a minority in an apartheid state or being a minority in a democratic state and lose the election in 10-15 years.

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